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[Music]

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you're in the cast our co-host this week

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once again is Chris O'Brien this is

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starting to become a habit after a while

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on the fara cast we may have you on more

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often like in another year or so okay

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anyway on last week's episode I think

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was one of the most heralded in recent

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memory we featured one hour with the one

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the only doctor Jacques Vallee and I

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figure you know we really promoted this

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to a fare-thee-well loads of messages

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anticipate or e messages on our forums

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then we have the show record number of

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downloads more listeners than ever how

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many messages in our forums about the

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episode one it was on an unrelated

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thread about actually about the book

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someone said oh wait you guys Chuck

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we'll it was on good joke you know it's

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not like we need any sort of accolades

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or I don't know some sort of you know

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people telling us hey folks are doing a

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good job salvaging wrong just we want to

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promote we want to promote creative

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thinking and and I think Valley came up

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with some very interesting insights and

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some I think he kind of put his neck

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stuck his neck out a little bit talking

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about the abduction phenomenon and his

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feelings about it and I was sure that

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that would at least generate one or two

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guffaw but no that's very interesting

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you know we already know about that

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article that was in UFO magazine about

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one particular abduction shall we say

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fiasco got to be very controversial

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we've avoided having the person involved

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the so-called victim on this show

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because of that but I figured after dr.

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Velle was basically saying that some of

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the techniques use abduction research

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really don't pass muster especially

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hypnotic regression forget about doing

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it on the telephone

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from 12,000 miles away but you know a

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lot of criticisms there I figured well

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nobody responded let me know Jeanne I

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don't know yeah you know sometimes we

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have I guess kind of innocuous guests on

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and it creates you know two-three

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hundred responses on the forums and then

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you get arguably the most notable

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personage in the field on and it's like

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we never did the show oh well what can

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you do a lot of people were listening

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and certainly a lot of people were

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downloading and listening to copies from

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our network GCM so we know the audience

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is out there but maybe everyone agrees

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for dr. Valley

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okay well maybe we're weeding out the

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the true believers and and where would

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just preaching to the choir well I would

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think you know there's still some wackos

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left and that we'd be hearing from the

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wackos we all hear as much from the

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wackos even when discussions get very

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animated on our forums

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you know the Wakko factor has diminished

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I think people have realized after four

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and a half years nearly five years of

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the power cast that when we say was

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separating the signal from the noise the

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noise makers are gone I mean early on in

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our first year after a couple of months

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we featured the USA representative for a

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certain one-armed Swiss farmer who

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claims to be a UFO contactee the only

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legitimate UFO contactee only no no you

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have to restate that the only legitimate

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contactee all the others who are either

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liars hoaxes fakers or delusional or

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Oliver underscore all of the above right

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no well but you know it had basically we

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had such a crazy thread on the message

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forms you know like a thousand or two

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thousand messages finally I had to put a

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stop to it it got really out of hand and

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sometimes these discussions reach a

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point where everybody is shouting at

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each other and there's no way to really

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have a meaningful dialogue you know well

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I guess you get the real the real heavy

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hitters on and people just sit back and

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take notes and shake their heads and go

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yeah I need to get back up to speed on

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some things well the one thing doctor of

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LA presents to you is the reminder that

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we haven't solved the UFO mystery it's a

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hell of a lot more complicated then a

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lot of people might realize you think et

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landing on earth is complicated but it's

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a lot more than that I'll say and that's

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what the pair cast is all about we're

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not here basically to preach a specific

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theory understand that we're not here to

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say UFOs are et not et crypto to wrest

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real from another dimension we're saying

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the answers are still out there we don't

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have them it's too premature ago hey we

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know the answers let's figure how we're

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going to bring about disclosure let's

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figure out how we're going to engage in

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EXO politics to understand the political

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insights of et yeah well I think today's

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show is going to take it into the realm

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of pop culture into the realm of how the

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media responds to this whole subject and

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how it has its own apparent agenda and I

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think today's guest is a classic example

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of an open-minded very up-to-speed

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individual who's extremely low-key and

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his involvement in the field and we're

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very I think we're very fortunate and

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lucky to have Tracy Torme on who is a

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co-author of a book with Jacques filet

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one of two novels that ballet is written

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and fast Walker's is a must read I think

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for anyone interested in the field and

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out-of-the-box thinking and I'm really

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looking forward to getting Tracy's take

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on where we're at here in the culture

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with our view of this very perplexing

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phenomenon and it's gonna be a lot of

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fun now I understand also of course that

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Tracy Torme yes folks he is the son of

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the other Torme although he's not a

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singer or at least I don't think he is

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but he has a background also in science

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fiction he was also the executive story

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editor and a writer for Star Trek next

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generation

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hey trekkers you know this is a person

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who was there

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he knew captain mcard he knew data

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he knew all them people and he was the

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one that came up with the whole holodeck

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in scenario with Dixon hill and the 30s

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gumshoe storylines I which I found

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particularly entertaining watching the

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show years ago that was his idea yep oh

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that's fascinating yeah they took some

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of that idea to the movie Star Trek

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first contact where they have the Borg

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in the holodeck and they recreate one of

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JC I've known Tracy for years and he's

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he's just uh he's a very interesting guy

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he's one of the few people that's really

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firmly ensconced in the Hollywood you

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know mainstream if you will he has just

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umpteen credits to his name the show

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sliders so one of my favorite shows from

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the 90s was completely his idea he he

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pretty much was the moving force and

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motivating force behind getting that

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show on the air but he actually took

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exception to the way the the network was

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starting to try to you know sort of horn

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in on the creative side of the show and

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he disassociated himself with the show

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and he almost did the same thing with

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the the Travis Walton movie that he

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co-produced fire in the sky when they

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changed around some of the very

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important details of Travis's

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experiences aboard the ship he got into

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a bit of a tussle with the studio about

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that and I'm sure we'll go into more

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detail on that with him on the episode

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yeah that's part of the problem with

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Hollywood you know everybody wants to

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have their measure of control of power

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they want to be able to say hey we did

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this we did that they tamper with

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everything they fiddle with everything

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and sometimes you wonder how films get

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made and you know how few producers

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actually get the opportunity to

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basically do what they want to do you

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for a George Lucas or a Steven Spielberg

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or James Cameron there's a hundred or a

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thousand other produced directors who

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beg borrow steal whatever to get enough

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money to make a film and then the

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executives say you know do it this way

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do it that way and sometimes you get a

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mess yeah well this will be a very I

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think educational and eye-opening show

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for folks out there that wonder how

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Hollywood gets from point A to point Z

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and convoluted we have Chris O'Brien's

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the co-host coming up in our next

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segment we have producer writer editor

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Tracy Torme I'm Jean Steinberg you're in

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the para cast ray Perkins a reclusive

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veteran burned out from the Gulf War

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lives tortured by relentless perplexing

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nightmares nightmares of a horrific

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battle in deep space and of a mysterious

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woman suffering an agony for her

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devastated world a woman not yet born

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calling across centuries to him then a

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coincidence leads him to his destiny his

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chance to alter the universe attack of

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the rocket

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the former fiction editor for Star Wars

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and Indiana Jones Robert Simpson writes

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the soul of the novel attack of the

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Rockets lies in its heart and passion

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for building a convincing tale of a love

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that spans the galaxy a thrilling story

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attack of the rocket is available now

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read a sample chapter and get a special

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discount off of the cover price at our

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IDs calm attack of the rock a novel in

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the grand science-fiction tradition gold

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isn't for you Ted Anderson president of

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Midas resources one of the world's

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premier gold and precious metal

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investing firms I get it you wouldn't

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buy gold if you believed that the

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government is doing a great job that the

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Fed will stop handing out trillions of

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dollars like bailout candy that social

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security would be there for you that's

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not what's happening

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you might even pass on gold if the

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stimulus package

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fuel inflation or that the dollar

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wouldn't lose value or that your

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retirement would be secure if all looks

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rosy to you then now is not the time to

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buy gold for the realists there have

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never been more sobering reasons to

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diversify with gold since 2001 the US

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Dollar Index has tanked 30% while gold

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has risen three hundred percent right

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now savvy investors are adding gold to

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their portfolios you should to find out

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what they know

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call us and I'll send you 10 reasons why

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gold will do very well three eight

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hundred six eight six two two three

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seven eight hundred six eight six two

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two three seven that's eight hundred six

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eight six two two three seven hi this is

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Alex Jones you've heard me talk about

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the delicious easy to fix and very

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storable foods from eat foods to read

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calm I've told you for years that eat

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foods correct has the best horrible food

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on the planet now it's that time of year

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again and their holiday special is here

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they have two holiday priced packs for

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you to put into your reserves for a

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secure future or to share with others

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the first is a six-month bulk supply in

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tin cans and the second is a five-week

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[Music]

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question what would you rather drink

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acidic water which burns holes in your

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body and causes loss of bone mass or

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alkaline water which promotes high

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energy and vibrant health the answer is

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clear and if you're drinking acidic

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307
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tired of searching for great talk-radio

308
00:14:12,779 --> 00:14:06,870
more important search reel over 1 we are

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00:14:17,409 --> 00:14:15,579
we want to hear from you if you have a

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00:14:20,949 --> 00:14:17,419
comment or question about the pair cast

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00:14:24,639 --> 00:14:20,959
send it to news at the podcast com

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00:14:26,379 --> 00:14:24,649
that's news at Lapera cast calm and

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don't forget to visit our famous pair of

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00:14:31,629 --> 00:14:28,699
cast community forums at forum dot

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Lapera cast comm get in on all the

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00:14:39,729 --> 00:14:36,879
action at forum dot the pair cast comm

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00:14:42,909 --> 00:14:39,739
we are pleased to have Tracy Torme join

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00:14:45,429 --> 00:14:42,919
us he's a writer producer editor and

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lots lots more man-about-town who

320
00:14:49,569 --> 00:14:47,179
learned of the orient the powers to

321
00:14:50,619 --> 00:14:49,579
cloud men's nuts not him that's a guy

322
00:14:53,139 --> 00:14:50,629
named mugged

323
00:14:55,629 --> 00:14:53,149
I think our co-host is Chris O'Brien I'm

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00:14:57,639 --> 00:14:55,639
Jean Steinberg you're in the power cast

325
00:15:00,369 --> 00:14:57,649
and Tracy you're someone I've wanted to

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talk to a long time especially because

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of one credit that you have which is you

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work on Star Trek next generation okay

329
00:15:15,429 --> 00:15:10,309
every trekker I'm the nation wants to

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00:15:19,569 --> 00:15:15,439
talk to you so tell me what role did you

331
00:15:23,429 --> 00:15:19,579
play on that show I first two seasons

332
00:15:26,649 --> 00:15:23,439
I wrote six episodes and I produced and

333
00:15:29,649 --> 00:15:26,659
became the personal protege I guess

334
00:15:31,779 --> 00:15:29,659
history Gene Roddenberry he really took

335
00:15:35,619 --> 00:15:31,789
me under his wing and taught me a lot

336
00:15:37,539 --> 00:15:35,629
and would show me a lot of kindness so I

337
00:15:39,849 --> 00:15:37,549
was there from the ground floor right

338
00:15:43,439 --> 00:15:39,859
from the beginning and spent two seasons

339
00:15:46,179 --> 00:15:43,449
there okay only two seasons any reason I

340
00:15:48,429 --> 00:15:46,189
just felt like I've done my thing after

341
00:15:50,379 --> 00:15:48,439
two years and and thought it was pretty

342
00:15:54,159 --> 00:15:50,389
much time to move on I kind of tend to

343
00:15:57,129 --> 00:15:54,169
do that so I was really satisfied with

344
00:15:58,989 --> 00:15:57,139
the time there and there was time to try

345
00:16:01,689 --> 00:15:58,999
something else okay during those first

346
00:16:05,099 --> 00:16:01,699
two seasons can you mention a couple of

347
00:16:08,589 --> 00:16:05,109
notable episodes we'd recognize the real

348
00:16:10,659 --> 00:16:08,599
one episode they won a Peabody Awards

349
00:16:14,679 --> 00:16:10,669
called the big goodbye and it was the

350
00:16:16,389 --> 00:16:14,689
original usage of the holodeck and it

351
00:16:18,069 --> 00:16:16,399
created a character called Dixon hill

352
00:16:20,679 --> 00:16:18,079
that was kind of like an alter-ego for

353
00:16:23,830 --> 00:16:20,689
Captain Picard my chance to kind of do

354
00:16:26,500 --> 00:16:23,840
Raymond Chandler kind of writing

355
00:16:28,750 --> 00:16:26,510
that was pretty memorable one got a lot

356
00:16:32,020 --> 00:16:28,760
of notoriety I did one called conspiracy

357
00:16:34,750 --> 00:16:32,030
which was also considered one of the

358
00:16:36,310 --> 00:16:34,760
darkest Star Trek's of all time caused a

359
00:16:39,730 --> 00:16:36,320
lot of controversy because it had kind

360
00:16:41,500 --> 00:16:39,740
of a downbeat unhappy ending which they

361
00:16:43,570 --> 00:16:41,510
weren't used to do it now can you tell

362
00:16:46,630 --> 00:16:43,580
honestly in what way was it a downbeat

363
00:16:48,700 --> 00:16:46,640
ending it's actually the ending sort of

364
00:16:51,090 --> 00:16:48,710
leaves an ominous tone that the bad guys

365
00:16:54,460 --> 00:16:51,100
perhaps maybe got the better of the

366
00:16:57,220 --> 00:16:54,470
Federation people and it was left open

367
00:16:59,530 --> 00:16:57,230
to where they were still formulating

368
00:17:02,080 --> 00:16:59,540
this sort of cabal inside of the

369
00:17:04,210 --> 00:17:02,090
Federation and I remember I caught a lot

370
00:17:06,070 --> 00:17:04,220
of flack for you know originally for

371
00:17:07,510 --> 00:17:06,080
them not wanting me to do that ending

372
00:17:09,699 --> 00:17:07,520
because they just said you know and

373
00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:09,709
these are usually happy and everyone's

374
00:17:13,510 --> 00:17:11,690
resolved and everything's fine at the

375
00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:13,520
end and they weren't sure they wanted to

376
00:17:18,370 --> 00:17:15,890
open the can of worms of going in a

377
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:18,380
darker direction but I was really proud

378
00:17:22,900 --> 00:17:19,970
of them for doing that episode and that

379
00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:22,910
was a personal favorite of mine so I did

380
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:27,050
six all together and it was a really

381
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:28,850
really great extruder and she really was

382
00:17:33,820 --> 00:17:31,010
now the Star Trek universe is kind of

383
00:17:36,700 --> 00:17:33,830
special and you know we always think

384
00:17:38,170 --> 00:17:36,710
about the various generations of it and

385
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:38,180
now of course we've gone back to the

386
00:17:42,850 --> 00:17:40,010
beginning and an alternate reality with

387
00:17:45,780 --> 00:17:42,860
a new Star Trek that JJ Abrams produced

388
00:17:48,580 --> 00:17:45,790
with new people except for of course

389
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:48,590
Leonard Nimoy what was your reaction to

390
00:17:53,350 --> 00:17:51,410
that movie it was very interesting it

391
00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:53,360
was definitely so different it was so

392
00:17:58,420 --> 00:17:55,490
action it was very action-oriented I was

393
00:18:01,510 --> 00:17:58,430
a little I felt it was a little light on

394
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:01,520
plot sometimes and a little heavy on the

395
00:18:06,790 --> 00:18:03,530
visuals but I understand that it was a

396
00:18:09,430 --> 00:18:06,800
mid-major you know expensive movie but

397
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:09,440
there's so much room to play with in the

398
00:18:14,530 --> 00:18:11,330
Star Trek universe there's just so many

399
00:18:16,300 --> 00:18:14,540
permutations and things to do with it

400
00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:16,310
and I think there's room for everybody

401
00:18:22,090 --> 00:18:19,250
pretty much in it and Jerry Abrams had

402
00:18:24,030 --> 00:18:22,100
his take and I remember some of the

403
00:18:25,540 --> 00:18:24,040
Trekkies were kind of upset with the

404
00:18:27,460 --> 00:18:25,550
scene between

405
00:18:30,340 --> 00:18:27,470
I guess it was what Spock Innova right

406
00:18:31,540 --> 00:18:30,350
into us having a romantic situation or

407
00:18:35,630 --> 00:18:31,550
whatever they thought that was like not

408
00:18:37,810 --> 00:18:35,640
Iran and Hoover oh yeah that car

409
00:18:41,419 --> 00:18:37,820
some pheasant feathers as I remember but

410
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:41,429
but you know learning from sort of gene

411
00:18:46,940 --> 00:18:44,250
roddenberry side like I did I really got

412
00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:46,950
a handle on what he's really trying to

413
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:49,770
say with all of his Star Trek stuff and

414
00:18:55,789 --> 00:18:52,890
as it's been said many times before it

415
00:18:59,810 --> 00:18:55,799
was really an allegory about our times

416
00:19:01,820 --> 00:18:59,820
and it was a way he told me he really

417
00:19:04,250 --> 00:19:01,830
wanted to do important stories and

418
00:19:05,780 --> 00:19:04,260
social relevance and the only way to do

419
00:19:10,010 --> 00:19:05,790
that was to set them on another planet

420
00:19:12,409 --> 00:19:10,020
that's kind of yeah now as far as Gene

421
00:19:13,909 --> 00:19:12,419
Roddenberry I've heard different stories

422
00:19:16,460 --> 00:19:13,919
about his personality that he was

423
00:19:18,260 --> 00:19:16,470
somewhat difficult to deal with what did

424
00:19:20,900 --> 00:19:18,270
you find someone who he took under his

425
00:19:23,510 --> 00:19:20,910
wing yes he could be very intimidating

426
00:19:26,230 --> 00:19:23,520
you know he was six foot four and a

427
00:19:28,909 --> 00:19:26,240
really hulking large man with very

428
00:19:31,159 --> 00:19:28,919
piercing eyes and I remember when I

429
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:31,169
first met him one of the first things he

430
00:19:36,380 --> 00:19:33,330
ever said to me was so what do you plan

431
00:19:39,830 --> 00:19:36,390
on doing with my Star Trek and I

432
00:19:43,430 --> 00:19:39,840
remember gulping and thinking oh and our

433
00:19:45,710 --> 00:19:43,440
world do I answer that you know and he

434
00:19:49,130 --> 00:19:45,720
so he definitely was a very powerful

435
00:19:53,270 --> 00:19:49,140
figure he knew what he wanted he didn't

436
00:19:55,430 --> 00:19:53,280
compromise fools very well if you got on

437
00:19:58,159 --> 00:19:55,440
his bad side you could be in a lot of

438
00:20:01,100 --> 00:19:58,169
trouble and I witnessed some people

439
00:20:03,289 --> 00:20:01,110
really struggle with with him but I was

440
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:03,299
very lucky he was he was really good to

441
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:05,850
me I really went on to do sliders

442
00:20:10,970 --> 00:20:08,850
basically by on his inspiration he's the

443
00:20:12,919 --> 00:20:10,980
one who said to me you're gonna create

444
00:20:14,360 --> 00:20:12,929
your own series one day and then he kind

445
00:20:16,730 --> 00:20:14,370
of told me what some of the things I

446
00:20:20,299 --> 00:20:16,740
would expect that would come along with

447
00:20:22,549 --> 00:20:20,309
that and he prepared me for the idea of

448
00:20:24,500 --> 00:20:22,559
creating my own show and probably

449
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:24,510
wouldn't have necessarily even done that

450
00:20:28,250 --> 00:20:26,730
if it hadn't been for him sliders tell

451
00:20:29,060 --> 00:20:28,260
us about sliders we're talking about

452
00:20:30,740 --> 00:20:29,070
something to happen

453
00:20:32,990 --> 00:20:30,750
some years back maybe some of our

454
00:20:34,549 --> 00:20:33,000
listeners don't recall sliders sliders

455
00:20:36,020 --> 00:20:34,559
was a story about people that are

456
00:20:39,020 --> 00:20:36,030
traveling from dimension to dimension

457
00:20:42,140 --> 00:20:39,030
from parallel earth to parallel earth

458
00:20:44,540 --> 00:20:42,150
the original concept was to be able to

459
00:20:47,210 --> 00:20:44,550
land us on some planets where earth has

460
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:47,220
gone through a strange transformation

461
00:20:50,870 --> 00:20:48,570
and the south

462
00:20:54,529 --> 00:20:50,880
one the Civil War or the Nazis are one

463
00:20:56,810 --> 00:20:54,539
the Second World War and I think all the

464
00:20:58,909 --> 00:20:56,820
way to what we used to call the

465
00:21:01,700 --> 00:20:58,919
bumblebee worlds which were the ones

466
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:01,710
where everything is exactly the same but

467
00:21:07,370 --> 00:21:03,210
there's a dinner hub type of bumblebee

468
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:07,380
you know and you just 99.9% of

469
00:21:11,749 --> 00:21:09,090
everything is the same so you think

470
00:21:15,740 --> 00:21:11,759
you're back home but you aren't you know

471
00:21:18,259 --> 00:21:15,750
so it was a great canvas to do again

472
00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:18,269
sort of allegorical stories that's where

473
00:21:22,879 --> 00:21:20,370
I guess my Roddenberry influence came in

474
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:22,889
it was a double-edged sword to do that

475
00:21:29,629 --> 00:21:26,129
show because the people at Fox were

476
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:29,639
extremely hands-on and always very

477
00:21:34,820 --> 00:21:32,850
nervous about the subject matter I don't

478
00:21:37,220 --> 00:21:34,830
know if Fox has probably changed in the

479
00:21:39,350 --> 00:21:37,230
days since then but at that time they

480
00:21:41,330 --> 00:21:39,360
were very worried about offending people

481
00:21:43,909 --> 00:21:41,340
and about kind of being politically

482
00:21:45,619 --> 00:21:43,919
correct and we used to struggle and

483
00:21:48,529 --> 00:21:45,629
struggle and struggle it was a constant

484
00:21:50,749 --> 00:21:48,539
struggle to try to do these sort of edgy

485
00:21:52,310 --> 00:21:50,759
shows that we really wanted to do that

486
00:21:54,139 --> 00:21:52,320
actually said something

487
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:54,149
mock's is kind of strange you know of

488
00:21:58,730 --> 00:21:56,730
course they have the x-files he also had

489
00:22:00,710 --> 00:21:58,740
Firefly which they killed so quickly and

490
00:22:05,749 --> 00:22:00,720
destroyed so quickly it never had a

491
00:22:07,700 --> 00:22:05,759
chance to flourish we had was just

492
00:22:09,980 --> 00:22:07,710
getting on the same page with them and

493
00:22:12,889 --> 00:22:09,990
they used to say we we did so

494
00:22:14,389 --> 00:22:12,899
subversively we would sneak things into

495
00:22:18,070 --> 00:22:14,399
shows that we weren't really supposed to

496
00:22:21,019 --> 00:22:18,080
do so the constant battle for that and

497
00:22:24,409 --> 00:22:21,029
the show ended up running five seasons

498
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:24,419
and it really jumped the shark as they

499
00:22:29,299 --> 00:22:27,330
say in the third season it just it

500
00:22:31,850 --> 00:22:29,309
became a completely different show I

501
00:22:34,100 --> 00:22:31,860
didn't even recognize it anymore so I'd

502
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:34,110
say the first two Nass seasons are one

503
00:22:38,899 --> 00:22:36,570
show and the last two and half seasons

504
00:22:40,399 --> 00:22:38,909
are another show and soon a certain

505
00:22:43,610 --> 00:22:40,409
amount of frustration involved with

506
00:22:46,009 --> 00:22:43,620
doing it but the ones that worked I was

507
00:22:48,529 --> 00:22:46,019
really proud of so it just wasn't always

508
00:22:51,169 --> 00:22:48,539
a consistent thing we have Tracy Torme

509
00:22:56,700 --> 00:22:51,179
I'm Jean Steinberg the co-host Chris

510
00:23:01,690 --> 00:22:59,440
[Music]

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author Linda Runyan has these skills

544
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from having lived this way of life and

545
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created the tools so you could - wild

546
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food is economical nutritious freely

547
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available abundant and free for the

548
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taking it is a skill that takes little

549
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time to learn but stays with you for

550
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life and now for a limited time it's all

551
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on sale it's called the bye-bye old

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website sale can you guess what's coming

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absolutely everything's on sale across

554
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the board including our already

555
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discounted packages and you know the

556
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holidays are coming up fast we don't

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know if we're going to have another sale

558
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this year this was the only one in 2010

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so far we've been lucky to keep our

560
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prices the same since 2008 but who knows

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what the future will bring so go to of

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566
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you don't need one

568
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everything you needed military surplus

569
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is at main military.com

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600
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617
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618
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calm that's off the grid Christmas calm

619
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the gzy and radio network providing the

620
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:07,140
world with hard-hitting talk radio g-c

621
00:27:22,740 --> 00:27:19,380
this is actually you're listening to the

622
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:22,750
podcast the gold standard of portable

623
00:27:27,390 --> 00:27:25,050
radio

624
00:27:29,190 --> 00:27:27,400
so Tracy we want to tell you here that

625
00:27:30,870 --> 00:27:29,200
Chris you know has an assignment his

626
00:27:33,210 --> 00:27:30,880
only assignment doesn't say anything the

627
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:33,220
show and he just has to say when I say

628
00:27:39,930 --> 00:27:35,890
you're in he says the bear coast you're

629
00:27:42,090 --> 00:27:39,940
slow pick up your off-key there he needs

630
00:27:44,310 --> 00:27:42,100
a director you know a good director I

631
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:44,320
name Spielberg I understand it he's not

632
00:27:49,110 --> 00:27:46,290
available he's too expensive for us

633
00:27:50,850 --> 00:27:49,120
Tracy Torme is our guest we're talking

634
00:27:52,770 --> 00:27:50,860
about first of all his background in

635
00:27:56,010 --> 00:27:52,780
science fiction TV Star Trek The Next

636
00:27:59,310 --> 00:27:56,020
Generation sliders so half of sliders

637
00:28:01,170 --> 00:27:59,320
was good half jumped the shark for those

638
00:28:03,270 --> 00:28:01,180
in the civilian world who don't know

639
00:28:06,150 --> 00:28:03,280
what jump the shark means it relates

640
00:28:09,270 --> 00:28:06,160
back to a Happy Days episode right I

641
00:28:12,360 --> 00:28:09,280
think that's right yes where they had

642
00:28:13,250 --> 00:28:12,370
some crazy thing there involving oh

643
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:13,260
forget it

644
00:28:19,020 --> 00:28:15,730
it's just basically the moment where

645
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:19,030
almost all series seem to get off the

646
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:27,000
bring on all the special stars no

647
00:28:31,410 --> 00:28:28,930
storylines were bring on some famous

648
00:28:32,970 --> 00:28:31,420
star it's not like for example Law &

649
00:28:35,220 --> 00:28:32,980
Order which continued for what 20

650
00:28:37,230 --> 00:28:35,230
seasons and maybe it jumped the shark

651
00:28:39,630 --> 00:28:37,240
with the first episode when they kept

652
00:28:42,420 --> 00:28:39,640
going through subsequent generations as

653
00:28:46,860 --> 00:28:42,430
even a Law & Order UK now by the way oh

654
00:28:49,140 --> 00:28:46,870
my god an order UK Jamie Bamber from

655
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:49,150
Battlestar Galactica he plays one of the

656
00:28:54,060 --> 00:28:51,930
detectives and then this woman from

657
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:54,070
Doctor Who one of the Doctor Who

658
00:29:00,030 --> 00:28:56,770
assistants plays an assistant DA or the

659
00:29:02,150 --> 00:29:00,040
UK equivalent so that show never jumps

660
00:29:04,590 --> 00:29:02,160
the shark interesting

661
00:29:06,900 --> 00:29:04,600
I'm impressed gene you really keep up

662
00:29:09,510 --> 00:29:06,910
with this stuff oh please you know my

663
00:29:11,660 --> 00:29:09,520
mind is a steel trap the problem is here

664
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:11,670
is that most of the time it's closed I

665
00:29:16,860 --> 00:29:14,050
turn my TV off about two and a half

666
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:16,870
years ago so I'm taking notes before we

667
00:29:21,150 --> 00:29:19,450
get into the more factual stuff let's

668
00:29:23,970 --> 00:29:21,160
deal with a more recent show you were a

669
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:23,980
writer on Carnivale right who is kind of

670
00:29:29,820 --> 00:29:26,890
an eclectic kind of show on one of the

671
00:29:32,759 --> 00:29:29,830
paid TV channels tell our listeners more

672
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:32,769
about it within each video show and it

673
00:29:38,130 --> 00:29:35,890
was about a carnival that was touring

674
00:29:41,460 --> 00:29:38,140
the Midwest the Dust Bowl back in the

675
00:29:43,019 --> 00:29:41,470
30s and it's really about good versus

676
00:29:45,149 --> 00:29:43,029
evil it's sort of like there's two

677
00:29:48,210 --> 00:29:45,159
Titanic forces that are surrounding the

678
00:29:50,970 --> 00:29:48,220
carnival and the dark side and the light

679
00:29:54,870 --> 00:29:50,980
side and so it was a chance to do some

680
00:29:58,769 --> 00:29:54,880
pretty powerful stories about the dual

681
00:30:02,129 --> 00:29:58,779
nature of man and the dark side that we

682
00:30:04,049 --> 00:30:02,139
all have etc and I was really intrigued

683
00:30:06,330 --> 00:30:04,059
by doing something set in that time

684
00:30:08,549 --> 00:30:06,340
period I thought that was kind of an

685
00:30:12,659 --> 00:30:08,559
interesting time periods or at least

686
00:30:14,700 --> 00:30:12,669
shortly before World War two etc so it

687
00:30:16,139 --> 00:30:14,710
was a very challenging show is unlike

688
00:30:19,460 --> 00:30:16,149
anything had really ever written before

689
00:30:23,430 --> 00:30:19,470
and I had a really good time with it and

690
00:30:25,620 --> 00:30:23,440
very intensely sort of intellectual show

691
00:30:27,750 --> 00:30:25,630
compared to most television how long did

692
00:30:31,110 --> 00:30:27,760
it last how does the public react to it

693
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:31,120
it lasted two seasons is the public

694
00:30:35,580 --> 00:30:33,490
developed a pretty strong cult following

695
00:30:38,940 --> 00:30:35,590
for it and people that liked it really

696
00:30:42,149 --> 00:30:38,950
really liked it and there were cultish

697
00:30:43,889 --> 00:30:42,159
sort of followings for it the same way

698
00:30:46,169 --> 00:30:43,899
you've had with Star Trek and things

699
00:30:49,350 --> 00:30:46,179
like that ultimately was just too

700
00:30:52,529 --> 00:30:49,360
expensive it was very expensive to do a

701
00:30:54,629 --> 00:30:52,539
show set in that period and after two

702
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:54,639
years HBO just didn't spend the money

703
00:30:58,289 --> 00:30:55,090
anymore

704
00:31:02,190 --> 00:30:58,299
so we all felt there was a lot more to

705
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:02,200
tell there when it ended but it was a it

706
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:04,450
was really a fun experience to who was

707
00:31:08,009 --> 00:31:06,250
in the show what are the major stars

708
00:31:11,279 --> 00:31:08,019
that when you might know from other TV

709
00:31:14,149 --> 00:31:11,289
series dino Clancy Brown you've been in

710
00:31:20,639 --> 00:31:14,159
a million things he was one of the stars

711
00:31:23,850 --> 00:31:20,649
Adrienne Barbeau is in it guy and a guy

712
00:31:25,740 --> 00:31:23,860
named Nick Stahl who has gone on to do a

713
00:31:29,730 --> 00:31:25,750
number of things it was kind of an

714
00:31:31,620 --> 00:31:29,740
ensemble cast and they were sort of

715
00:31:35,190 --> 00:31:31,630
intentionally looking for some people

716
00:31:38,159 --> 00:31:35,200
whose faces weren't overly familiar and

717
00:31:40,950 --> 00:31:38,169
they found a really great sort of gritty

718
00:31:43,260 --> 00:31:40,960
group of actors that really helped to

719
00:31:46,500 --> 00:31:43,270
carry the show

720
00:31:48,780 --> 00:31:46,510
it was it was really a consistent

721
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:48,790
challenge to try to keep the level of

722
00:31:53,310 --> 00:31:51,370
writing high on it and to do things that

723
00:31:55,740 --> 00:31:53,320
were again sort of more intellectually

724
00:31:58,770 --> 00:31:55,750
based so whenever you get a chance where

725
00:32:00,720 --> 00:31:58,780
they they sort of the network sort of

726
00:32:04,010 --> 00:32:00,730
lets you do things that make people

727
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:04,020
think that's a very rare opportunity

728
00:32:07,110 --> 00:32:06,250
because they're always usually trying to

729
00:32:09,780 --> 00:32:07,120
dumb it down

730
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:09,790
and so when you wouldn't been they take

731
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:11,410
the reins off and they allow you to

732
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:14,290
really explore some you know pretty

733
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:17,890
far-reaching concepts that's always you

734
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:20,410
know bonus and gravy for writers well

735
00:32:24,540 --> 00:32:22,330
just very briefly before we move on to

736
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:24,550
more factual pursuits in today's

737
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:25,450
television

738
00:32:32,130 --> 00:32:28,090
is there anything comparable in terms of

739
00:32:35,130 --> 00:32:32,140
originality being able to tell a story

740
00:32:37,530 --> 00:32:35,140
without the typical limitations imposed

741
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:37,540
by television networks well I'm like

742
00:32:43,110 --> 00:32:39,730
Chris I guess I sort of stay away from

743
00:32:46,140 --> 00:32:43,120
television main network television

744
00:32:47,820 --> 00:32:46,150
because for my purposes I don't like

745
00:32:50,070 --> 00:32:47,830
being influenced by something else I

746
00:32:51,330 --> 00:32:50,080
don't like seeing something and then

747
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:51,340
thinking oh that's a little bit like

748
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:52,930
something else I'm working on or

749
00:32:57,780 --> 00:32:54,490
something I want to work on or whatever

750
00:33:02,160 --> 00:32:57,790
so I pretty much have that hermit

751
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:02,170
lifestyle when it comes to media I don't

752
00:33:07,590 --> 00:33:04,090
keep up with a lot of shows that you

753
00:33:10,860 --> 00:33:07,600
would expect that I would I really kind

754
00:33:12,540 --> 00:33:10,870
of have a very eclectic taste and you

755
00:33:15,510 --> 00:33:12,550
know only really watch the stuff that

756
00:33:17,850 --> 00:33:15,520
appeals to me and so I'm very far behind

757
00:33:19,770 --> 00:33:17,860
on a lot of these shows and I'm not a

758
00:33:22,830 --> 00:33:19,780
great person to give an answer to that I

759
00:33:24,390 --> 00:33:22,840
guess I know the feeling people for

760
00:33:26,700 --> 00:33:24,400
years are asked what do you think of

761
00:33:28,170 --> 00:33:26,710
lost and I said I don't know I'm lost

762
00:33:33,570 --> 00:33:28,180
man what are you talking about and then

763
00:33:34,980 --> 00:33:33,580
finally here Hulu came out and I just I

764
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:34,990
decided hey what the heck I'm gonna

765
00:33:39,390 --> 00:33:37,570
check out an episode of lost I watched

766
00:33:41,220 --> 00:33:39,400
the opening couple of episodes and it

767
00:33:43,470 --> 00:33:41,230
didn't grab me but but I got through

768
00:33:46,050 --> 00:33:43,480
that and then boy I'll tell you over the

769
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:46,060
next year I devoured all those episodes

770
00:33:51,570 --> 00:33:48,490
and I felt that it was a very very

771
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:51,580
interesting concept I I felt he kind of

772
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:53,050
lagged in the last couple of couple

773
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:54,610
three seasons but boy I'll tell you

774
00:33:58,230 --> 00:33:54,970
those four

775
00:34:01,740 --> 00:33:58,240
first three years of very very original

776
00:34:03,570 --> 00:34:01,750
very fresh very interesting yeah one day

777
00:34:05,549 --> 00:34:03,580
I kind of figured that I'll catch up on

778
00:34:08,369 --> 00:34:05,559
a lot of this that I'll just sit there

779
00:34:10,050 --> 00:34:08,379
with some time on my hands and watch the

780
00:34:13,530 --> 00:34:10,060
old show that everybody always assumed

781
00:34:16,379 --> 00:34:13,540
that I did and catch up so it's a it's a

782
00:34:18,270 --> 00:34:16,389
far-off goal in my mind but I probably

783
00:34:20,339 --> 00:34:18,280
will do it one day all right well

784
00:34:23,970 --> 00:34:20,349
obviously there's a point where you got

785
00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:23,980
involved in our paranormal universe and

786
00:34:28,710 --> 00:34:26,169
wrote for example a science fiction

787
00:34:29,490 --> 00:34:28,720
novel with Jacques filet tell us how

788
00:34:32,580 --> 00:34:29,500
that came to be

789
00:34:35,129 --> 00:34:32,590
Jacques and I met on a project at

790
00:34:38,849 --> 00:34:35,139
Universal Studios called messengers of

791
00:34:42,389 --> 00:34:38,859
deception with director Joe Dante was

792
00:34:44,070 --> 00:34:42,399
involved at the time - and Robert K

793
00:34:46,109 --> 00:34:44,080
Weiss who later went on to do sliders

794
00:34:49,980 --> 00:34:46,119
with me was another person involved with

795
00:34:53,010 --> 00:34:49,990
that and it was a conspiratorial piece

796
00:34:58,010 --> 00:34:53,020
which was very unique in that it was

797
00:35:02,130 --> 00:34:58,020
sort of 50 or 60 percent conspiratorial

798
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:02,140
parallax of you three days of the Condor

799
00:35:09,270 --> 00:35:05,290
kind of story but then on the other hand

800
00:35:12,210 --> 00:35:09,280
we took a very satirical look at the UFO

801
00:35:14,940 --> 00:35:12,220
field and we had a Brotherhood of

802
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:14,950
galactic science that was on television

803
00:35:21,540 --> 00:35:16,890
24 hours a day

804
00:35:25,220 --> 00:35:21,550
spewing sort of New Age beliefs and and

805
00:35:27,599 --> 00:35:25,230
sort of a it was all shot in my way to

806
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:27,609
sort of Lampoon some of the stuff that

807
00:35:35,070 --> 00:35:30,210
was going on in UFO circles at the time

808
00:35:37,530 --> 00:35:35,080
and that's where that all came from was

809
00:35:39,870 --> 00:35:37,540
that I wrote an original screenplay and

810
00:35:42,210 --> 00:35:39,880
then Jacques basically took it and

811
00:35:44,730 --> 00:35:42,220
adapted it into the novel fast Walker

812
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:44,740
and that was the novel that we ended up

813
00:35:49,859 --> 00:35:48,010
writing together and it all came from

814
00:35:52,620 --> 00:35:49,869
the original script for messages of

815
00:35:55,339 --> 00:35:52,630
deception did fast Walker ever have a

816
00:35:59,550 --> 00:35:55,349
tendency of going into a movie or what

817
00:36:01,740 --> 00:35:59,560
you know it really it really wasn't

818
00:36:03,750 --> 00:36:01,750
looked at in that direction I don't know

819
00:36:05,430 --> 00:36:03,760
exactly why I'd have to kind of search

820
00:36:07,230 --> 00:36:05,440
my memory and try to remember

821
00:36:08,910 --> 00:36:07,240
but we weren't going to be doing

822
00:36:11,490 --> 00:36:08,920
messages of deception because there was

823
00:36:14,460 --> 00:36:11,500
a big falling out between geo dante and

824
00:36:16,260 --> 00:36:14,470
the other producers on the project and

825
00:36:18,359 --> 00:36:16,270
then they thought it was very expensive

826
00:36:19,829 --> 00:36:18,369
and everything too so it's not didn't

827
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:19,839
want to see it just kind of died on the

828
00:36:24,210 --> 00:36:22,210
vine so then he adapted it into fast

829
00:36:25,829 --> 00:36:24,220
Walker a reminder neighbors if you have

830
00:36:28,140 --> 00:36:25,839
something to say about the power cast

831
00:36:31,349 --> 00:36:28,150
pro/con and certainly we hope not

832
00:36:33,450 --> 00:36:31,359
indifferent send your message to news at

833
00:36:35,579 --> 00:36:33,460
the power cast comm that's news at the

834
00:36:38,819 --> 00:36:35,589
power cast calm and by the way some of

835
00:36:40,859 --> 00:36:38,829
you asked us to let you in early on

836
00:36:43,109 --> 00:36:40,869
forthcoming guests so you can suggest

837
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:43,119
questions in our forms or by email

838
00:36:48,030 --> 00:36:45,490
unfortunately sometimes we book the

839
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:48,040
guests at the last possible moment but

840
00:36:52,020 --> 00:36:49,450
if we have the time we'll let you know

841
00:37:00,690 --> 00:36:52,030
we have Tracy Torme I'm gene Steinberg

842
00:37:03,270 --> 00:37:00,700
you're in the para cast fate magazine

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provides true reports of the strange and

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unknown keep up with the latest on

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angels and miracle psychic phenomena

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ghosts UFOs life after death and much

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much more

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950
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we are the gcn radio network hello this

951
00:41:15,500 --> 00:41:12,390
is John Burroughs one of the witnesses

952
00:41:17,420 --> 00:41:15,510
to the Rendlesham UFO incident you're

953
00:41:22,359 --> 00:41:17,430
listening to the podcast the gold

954
00:41:27,829 --> 00:41:25,309
we have Tracy Torme this week on the

955
00:41:30,260 --> 00:41:27,839
power cast I'm Jean Steinberg our ever

956
00:41:32,390 --> 00:41:30,270
hard-working co-host is Chris O'Brien

957
00:41:34,490 --> 00:41:32,400
now maybe we should pick up on some

958
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:34,500
other things here involved in his

959
00:41:40,309 --> 00:41:36,930
paranormal pursuits for that Chris

960
00:41:43,849 --> 00:41:40,319
takeover Tracy I remember distinctly

961
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:43,859
when we met was at the the crest own two

962
00:41:47,599 --> 00:41:45,930
conference I think as we unofficially

963
00:41:52,099 --> 00:41:47,609
called it at the time I think that was

964
00:41:53,720 --> 00:41:52,109
in 1994 and you kind of let slip that

965
00:41:55,970 --> 00:41:53,730
you were working on our very interesting

966
00:41:58,579 --> 00:41:55,980
movie project about the Travis Walton

967
00:42:00,440 --> 00:41:58,589
case fire in the sky which I'm sure

968
00:42:02,870 --> 00:42:00,450
quite a number of our listeners have

969
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:02,880
seen and why don't you give us a little

970
00:42:07,430 --> 00:42:05,010
background information about your

971
00:42:10,819 --> 00:42:07,440
involvement with Travis and how the the

972
00:42:12,470 --> 00:42:10,829
movie project developed well I went to

973
00:42:14,450 --> 00:42:12,480
Beverly Hills High School of all things

974
00:42:17,750 --> 00:42:14,460
and most people don't like to admit to

975
00:42:19,370 --> 00:42:17,760
that but we used to have study hall

976
00:42:22,010 --> 00:42:19,380
where we could listen to the radio in

977
00:42:25,490 --> 00:42:22,020
our library and I remember being at

978
00:42:29,450 --> 00:42:25,500
Beverly High and a story came across the

979
00:42:32,029 --> 00:42:29,460
news on the radio about this poor

980
00:42:34,359 --> 00:42:32,039
woodsman in Arizona who had been

981
00:42:36,799 --> 00:42:34,369
supposedly zapped by a flying saucer

982
00:42:39,230 --> 00:42:36,809
taken away for days and they thought

983
00:42:41,329 --> 00:42:39,240
that his friends had murdered him that's

984
00:42:43,460 --> 00:42:41,339
where I first heard about it and it just

985
00:42:45,109 --> 00:42:43,470
you know really struck me like wow this

986
00:42:49,069 --> 00:42:45,119
sounds really strange I've got to keep

987
00:42:51,650 --> 00:42:49,079
my eyes on this so years later I became

988
00:42:53,420 --> 00:42:51,660
very close with Budd Hopkins and got

989
00:42:56,210 --> 00:42:53,430
involved with a lot of abduction

990
00:42:58,549 --> 00:42:56,220
research and I thought to myself what's

991
00:43:01,430 --> 00:42:58,559
the best abduction story really to tell

992
00:43:04,069 --> 00:43:01,440
from a filmic standpoint and I decided

993
00:43:06,289 --> 00:43:04,079
it would be the Travis Walton case so I

994
00:43:09,170 --> 00:43:06,299
tried to call him and he had had an

995
00:43:11,359 --> 00:43:09,180
unlisted number for 10 years and he had

996
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:11,369
just put his number back in the

997
00:43:15,980 --> 00:43:13,410
phonebook like two days before I called

998
00:43:18,500 --> 00:43:15,990
him it was one of those really amazing

999
00:43:21,170 --> 00:43:18,510
coincidences and I had to spend quite a

1000
00:43:23,859 --> 00:43:21,180
lot of time convincing him that I wasn't

1001
00:43:26,539 --> 00:43:23,869
out to rip him off I wasn't out to

1002
00:43:28,940 --> 00:43:26,549
bastardize his story or anything like

1003
00:43:31,700 --> 00:43:28,950
that that I really wanted to do a

1004
00:43:33,650 --> 00:43:31,710
faithful adaptation of it and so I had

1005
00:43:36,950 --> 00:43:33,660
to earn his trust over a period of time

1006
00:43:41,150 --> 00:43:36,960
and so I ended up taking many trips to

1007
00:43:43,070 --> 00:43:41,160
Arizona and ended up tracking down a lot

1008
00:43:46,850 --> 00:43:43,080
of the people involved both pro and con

1009
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:46,860
and just researched and researched it

1010
00:43:50,650 --> 00:43:48,570
and researched it and so I finally felt

1011
00:43:54,490 --> 00:43:50,660
I knew the story pretty well and

1012
00:43:57,230 --> 00:43:54,500
eventually we sold it to Paramount and

1013
00:43:59,630 --> 00:43:57,240
finally got it made after trying for

1014
00:44:01,820 --> 00:43:59,640
about six or seven years we finally got

1015
00:44:04,190 --> 00:44:01,830
it off the ground well I seem to recall

1016
00:44:07,310 --> 00:44:04,200
that there was some controversy about

1017
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:07,320
the actual film itself that some of

1018
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:10,650
these scenes that were actually used in

1019
00:44:16,460 --> 00:44:13,530
the final cut of the film especially the

1020
00:44:18,290 --> 00:44:16,470
scenes aboard the actual craft there was

1021
00:44:20,270 --> 00:44:18,300
some controversy surrounding the

1022
00:44:21,740 --> 00:44:20,280
depiction of the events do you want to

1023
00:44:25,010 --> 00:44:21,750
address that a little bit I know it was

1024
00:44:29,300 --> 00:44:25,020
clear that was a very very simple story

1025
00:44:32,090 --> 00:44:29,310
was that I had done a me series for CBS

1026
00:44:35,390 --> 00:44:32,100
called intruders and by complete

1027
00:44:38,030 --> 00:44:35,400
coincidence intruders was airing for its

1028
00:44:41,450 --> 00:44:38,040
second time as we were in pre-production

1029
00:44:43,820 --> 00:44:41,460
on fire in the sky and somebody over at

1030
00:44:46,190 --> 00:44:43,830
Paramount saw it and said oh my god

1031
00:44:47,720 --> 00:44:46,200
they've already done they say governess

1032
00:44:50,540 --> 00:44:47,730
they've done the little aliens with the

1033
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:50,550
big heads and the big eyes and the guy

1034
00:44:54,740 --> 00:44:52,650
being you know put down on the table and

1035
00:44:56,540 --> 00:44:54,750
blah blah blah blah blah so they went

1036
00:44:59,360 --> 00:44:56,550
into a panic mode they suddenly were

1037
00:45:02,680 --> 00:44:59,370
thinking oh we may not have a movie and

1038
00:45:05,990 --> 00:45:02,690
they came to us with a very stern

1039
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:06,000
admonition basically to say that the

1040
00:45:11,240 --> 00:45:09,210
alien sequences had to be changed they

1041
00:45:12,650 --> 00:45:11,250
had to be unique they had to be

1042
00:45:13,450 --> 00:45:12,660
different than anything we've seen

1043
00:45:16,940 --> 00:45:13,460
before

1044
00:45:18,860 --> 00:45:16,950
etc so we were then in a real quandary

1045
00:45:21,340 --> 00:45:18,870
because we wanted to stay true to the

1046
00:45:23,930 --> 00:45:21,350
story and we didn't want to fictionalize

1047
00:45:27,500 --> 00:45:23,940
so we ended up working out a compromise

1048
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:27,510
where the director myself and Travis we

1049
00:45:33,790 --> 00:45:30,450
all sort of quiz him about some of the

1050
00:45:36,170 --> 00:45:33,800
things he was feeling during his onboard

1051
00:45:38,450 --> 00:45:36,180
experience like a feeling of

1052
00:45:40,810 --> 00:45:38,460
claustrophobia a feeling like he

1053
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:40,820
couldn't breathe very well

1054
00:45:45,340 --> 00:45:42,890
out of that came a scene where they put

1055
00:45:48,190 --> 00:45:45,350
a mask over his face and what I'm trying

1056
00:45:50,290 --> 00:45:48,200
to try to tell you is that we we'd sort

1057
00:45:52,630 --> 00:45:50,300
of again coming back to that word

1058
00:45:55,510 --> 00:45:52,640
allegory we kind of came back to a Halla

1059
00:45:58,180 --> 00:45:55,520
gorkel telling of his story where we

1060
00:46:00,790 --> 00:45:58,190
changed the details and tried to

1061
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:00,800
recreate the feelings that he basically

1062
00:46:08,530 --> 00:46:05,330
had while he was onboard this craft or

1063
00:46:10,660 --> 00:46:08,540
whatever it was and we succeeded in the

1064
00:46:13,300 --> 00:46:10,670
sense that it definitely affected Travis

1065
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:13,310
the way we were hoping it would I mean

1066
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:15,290
it really unsettled him and took him

1067
00:46:20,890 --> 00:46:18,370
back to the night of his incident

1068
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:20,900
successfully but there were a bunch of

1069
00:46:26,050 --> 00:46:23,690
UFO people that were very upset that

1070
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:26,060
felt like we had fictionalized the story

1071
00:46:30,250 --> 00:46:28,370
and there was another example of

1072
00:46:32,860 --> 00:46:30,260
Hollywood kind of going off the deep end

1073
00:46:34,570 --> 00:46:32,870
and at first I was kind of defensive

1074
00:46:38,260 --> 00:46:34,580
about that and thought you know that it

1075
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:38,270
really was a small small minded attitude

1076
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:40,490
at that time but you know what looking

1077
00:46:46,330 --> 00:46:42,970
back on it I can understand a lot better

1078
00:46:48,010 --> 00:46:46,340
why I would have upset people and if I

1079
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:48,020
really had had my druthers I wouldn't

1080
00:46:53,050 --> 00:46:50,330
have done it that way but you only had

1081
00:46:55,720 --> 00:46:53,060
no choice it was like those scenes were

1082
00:46:58,360 --> 00:46:55,730
so riveting and in his book in the

1083
00:47:01,780 --> 00:46:58,370
descriptions of the actual experience or

1084
00:47:04,450 --> 00:47:01,790
just I think so I they're just so in

1085
00:47:06,430 --> 00:47:04,460
just permanently written into the annals

1086
00:47:10,330 --> 00:47:06,440
of ufology some of those details are

1087
00:47:11,830 --> 00:47:10,340
just very very I think iconic in in the

1088
00:47:14,770 --> 00:47:11,840
way that they come across to the reader

1089
00:47:16,750 --> 00:47:14,780
in the book and and I could see why some

1090
00:47:19,630 --> 00:47:16,760
people were a little dismayed by that

1091
00:47:23,830 --> 00:47:19,640
but at the same time I also happen to

1092
00:47:25,900 --> 00:47:23,840
catch just by sheer coincidence I happen

1093
00:47:29,530 --> 00:47:25,910
to catch I think it was a Montel

1094
00:47:31,780 --> 00:47:29,540
Williams Show with with Travis and Mike

1095
00:47:34,870 --> 00:47:31,790
Rogers and I seem to remember fill class

1096
00:47:38,740 --> 00:47:34,880
sitting in the front row just dogging

1097
00:47:41,380 --> 00:47:38,750
those guys about it and and how Travis

1098
00:47:46,210 --> 00:47:41,390
said look you know it's how I felt this

1099
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:46,220
really did capture how I felt and didn't

1100
00:47:50,590 --> 00:47:48,170
want to apologize well it's funny

1101
00:47:53,009 --> 00:47:50,600
because when the Seville first came out

1102
00:47:55,399 --> 00:47:53,019
the skeptics I mean the guys that

1103
00:47:58,169 --> 00:47:55,409
sigh cop and stuff like that they really

1104
00:48:00,239 --> 00:47:58,179
tried every trick in the book

1105
00:48:02,009 --> 00:48:00,249
to try to discredit the film I mean it

1106
00:48:05,069 --> 00:48:02,019
was really kind of pathetic to watch

1107
00:48:08,009 --> 00:48:05,079
them go to work and try to smear

1108
00:48:09,929 --> 00:48:08,019
everybody and it's just I guess it shows

1109
00:48:12,870 --> 00:48:09,939
that something about that story really

1110
00:48:18,479 --> 00:48:12,880
frightened them because it was a hard

1111
00:48:20,370 --> 00:48:18,489
story to dismiss you know so back to the

1112
00:48:23,130 --> 00:48:20,380
previous point I definitely can

1113
00:48:26,009 --> 00:48:23,140
understand why people wanted it to be

1114
00:48:29,039 --> 00:48:26,019
closer to the truth and in our original

1115
00:48:31,499 --> 00:48:29,049
screenplay it followed his book

1116
00:48:33,929 --> 00:48:31,509
description virtually a hundred percent

1117
00:48:36,539 --> 00:48:33,939
I mean it literally just blow-by-blow we

1118
00:48:38,909 --> 00:48:36,549
recreated everything he remembered and

1119
00:48:40,739 --> 00:48:38,919
then because of that incident that I

1120
00:48:43,259 --> 00:48:40,749
told you about we just weren't allowed

1121
00:48:45,389 --> 00:48:43,269
to do that well this brings up an

1122
00:48:46,949 --> 00:48:45,399
interesting point about the influence

1123
00:48:49,679 --> 00:48:46,959
that Hollywood has on the creative

1124
00:48:51,539 --> 00:48:49,689
process and it's it's been a bone of

1125
00:48:53,549 --> 00:48:51,549
contention of mine and and I've voiced

1126
00:48:56,219 --> 00:48:53,559
it on a number of occasions on the

1127
00:48:58,469 --> 00:48:56,229
podcast here that Hollywood has a

1128
00:49:00,679 --> 00:48:58,479
tendency to go for the entertainment

1129
00:49:02,999 --> 00:49:00,689
value as opposed to the accuracy and

1130
00:49:05,729 --> 00:49:03,009
it's really unfortunate that you were

1131
00:49:07,649 --> 00:49:05,739
placed in a in a position where you

1132
00:49:09,569 --> 00:49:07,659
really literally to save the project you

1133
00:49:12,059 --> 00:49:09,579
had no choice but to sort of acquiesce

1134
00:49:14,459 --> 00:49:12,069
to their wishes what do you think about

1135
00:49:16,799 --> 00:49:14,469
Hollywood just in general the way they

1136
00:49:19,649 --> 00:49:16,809
treat the UFO subject I mean we've had

1137
00:49:21,269 --> 00:49:19,659
quite a bit of water going to the bridge

1138
00:49:24,329 --> 00:49:21,279
there's been a lot of projects over the

1139
00:49:27,299 --> 00:49:24,339
years that do you know deal with this

1140
00:49:29,249 --> 00:49:27,309
subject what what are your feelings if

1141
00:49:32,069 --> 00:49:29,259
you had two great Hollywood what would

1142
00:49:35,659 --> 00:49:32,079
you say you know UFOs in general I

1143
00:49:40,019 --> 00:49:35,669
believe are very very misunderstood and

1144
00:49:43,079 --> 00:49:40,029
misreported the the number of people

1145
00:49:46,139 --> 00:49:43,089
that really seem to have a good handle

1146
00:49:49,079 --> 00:49:46,149
on what's really going on is pretty

1147
00:49:50,729 --> 00:49:49,089
small everybody has their own opinions

1148
00:49:53,279 --> 00:49:50,739
and a lot of people are zealots about

1149
00:49:55,949 --> 00:49:53,289
their opinions and they don't really

1150
00:49:59,249 --> 00:49:55,959
understand a lot of what goes on it's

1151
00:50:00,959 --> 00:49:59,259
such a complex field it really it really

1152
00:50:02,579 --> 00:50:00,969
is you have to spend a lot of time

1153
00:50:05,429 --> 00:50:02,589
separated but you're separating the

1154
00:50:06,750 --> 00:50:05,439
wheat from the chaff on all UFO stories

1155
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:06,760
that's my opinon

1156
00:50:12,420 --> 00:50:09,970
anyway I really lost patience a long

1157
00:50:14,490 --> 00:50:12,430
time ago with people that come along and

1158
00:50:16,650 --> 00:50:14,500
say oh the aliens are coming from these

1159
00:50:18,450 --> 00:50:16,660
you know seven star systems and here's

1160
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:18,460
what their names are and here's why

1161
00:50:21,930 --> 00:50:19,690
they're here and here's what they're

1162
00:50:25,020 --> 00:50:21,940
gonna do and whenever anybody seems to

1163
00:50:26,730 --> 00:50:25,030
have all the answers to UFO questions I

1164
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:26,740
basically tend to think they know the

1165
00:50:33,390 --> 00:50:30,610
answer run away I remember sitting with

1166
00:50:35,970 --> 00:50:33,400
you in 1998 at the MUFON international

1167
00:50:37,860 --> 00:50:35,980
symposium in Denver and the two of us

1168
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:37,870
literally got up and left because we

1169
00:50:44,010 --> 00:50:41,410
just we were so just dismayed and

1170
00:50:47,190 --> 00:50:44,020
actually I seem to remember being you

1171
00:50:49,410 --> 00:50:47,200
know you know kind of upset and angry at

1172
00:50:51,570 --> 00:50:49,420
what I was hearing and I remember us

1173
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:51,580
walking down the hall just shaking our

1174
00:50:54,450 --> 00:50:53,050
head looking at each other going man I

1175
00:50:57,030 --> 00:50:54,460
can't believe this

1176
00:50:58,440 --> 00:50:57,040
yeah where did you come down where do

1177
00:51:01,350 --> 00:50:58,450
you come down I mean you've spent time

1178
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:01,360
with out-of-the-box thinkers I met you

1179
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:03,850
through Tom Adams one of my major early

1180
00:51:08,790 --> 00:51:05,890
influences and my investigative process

1181
00:51:10,250 --> 00:51:08,800
David Perkins you've spent time with

1182
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:10,260
Jacque fillet these are all

1183
00:51:15,540 --> 00:51:12,930
out-of-the-box very open-minded very

1184
00:51:17,190 --> 00:51:15,550
brilliant thinkers in my estimation

1185
00:51:18,570 --> 00:51:17,200
where do you come down I mean what does

1186
00:51:22,230 --> 00:51:18,580
your gut tell you that we're dealing

1187
00:51:24,450 --> 00:51:22,240
with here okay gives that answer when

1188
00:51:27,030 --> 00:51:24,460
you ask a lengthy out-of-the-box

1189
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:27,040
question the problem sometimes arises

1190
00:51:33,630 --> 00:51:29,530
where we have to take an out-of-the-box

1191
00:51:36,090 --> 00:51:33,640
break we have Tracy term a writer and

1192
00:51:39,210 --> 00:51:36,100
producer joining us the co-host is Chris

1193
00:51:46,970 --> 00:51:39,220
O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg you're in the

1194
00:51:52,150 --> 00:51:49,470
[Music]

1195
00:51:54,099 --> 00:51:52,160
hi this is Ted Anderson if you own an

1196
00:51:56,380 --> 00:51:54,109
Apple iPhone and love to listen to your

1197
00:51:58,150 --> 00:51:56,390
favorite programs on GCM I've got good

1198
00:52:00,490 --> 00:51:58,160
news for you I'm proud to announce that

1199
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:00,500
GCN has a brand new iPhone app available

1200
00:52:04,990 --> 00:52:03,050
for our dedicated listeners at GCM

1201
00:52:07,089 --> 00:52:05,000
live.com listen to your favorite

1202
00:52:09,190 --> 00:52:07,099
hard-hitting GCN programs live or

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00:52:11,410 --> 00:52:09,200
on-demand right on your iPhone and the

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best part the gcn iPhone app can be

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yours absolutely free download the

1206
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iPhone app today by clicking on the

1207
00:52:21,099 --> 00:52:18,109
banner at GC and live.com again that's

1208
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:21,109
GCM live.com we the people grow cotton

1209
00:52:24,819 --> 00:52:23,210
wheat fabric engraving can bed strips

1210
00:52:26,589 --> 00:52:24,829
and fibers to protect from counterfeit

1211
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:26,599
and carding to a private bank having a

1212
00:52:29,410 --> 00:52:27,650
led back at interest

1213
00:52:31,270 --> 00:52:29,420
forcing taxes to service debt this

1214
00:52:32,740 --> 00:52:31,280
capitalism was Jefferson correct when

1215
00:52:34,390 --> 00:52:32,750
stating a central bank issuing the

1216
00:52:35,500 --> 00:52:34,400
public currency is a greater menace to

1217
00:52:37,270 --> 00:52:35,510
the liberties of the people than a

1218
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:37,280
standing army Ted Anderson I'm placing a

1219
00:52:40,450 --> 00:52:38,450
free silver dollar in a book that

1220
00:52:43,720 --> 00:52:40,460
explains our monetary system call for

1221
00:52:46,780 --> 00:52:43,730
your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time to

1222
00:52:55,780 --> 00:52:46,790
understand the system call 866 to 237

1223
00:52:57,730 --> 00:52:55,790
that's 800 686 to 237 welcome back to

1224
00:53:01,059 --> 00:52:57,740
the pair cast the gold standard of

1225
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:01,069
paranormal radio and now here's gene

1226
00:53:09,220 --> 00:53:06,430
[Music]

1227
00:53:11,349 --> 00:53:09,230
we enter our number two of the power

1228
00:53:13,569 --> 00:53:11,359
cast the guess is Tracy tor amay the

1229
00:53:16,240 --> 00:53:13,579
co-host is Chris O'Brien I'm gene

1230
00:53:20,349 --> 00:53:16,250
Steinberg you're in the para cast Tracy

1231
00:53:22,390 --> 00:53:20,359
we had a far-reaching question from yes

1232
00:53:23,710 --> 00:53:22,400
we've given you a little extra time to

1233
00:53:26,529 --> 00:53:23,720
think about your answer

1234
00:53:28,750 --> 00:53:26,539
so go ahead with $84,000 question

1235
00:53:34,329 --> 00:53:28,760
actually nowadays in Hollywood 64

1236
00:53:37,210 --> 00:53:34,339
million right yes well I think that it's

1237
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:37,220
the most misunderstood mystery in the

1238
00:53:43,210 --> 00:53:39,650
history of the world I really believe

1239
00:53:45,039 --> 00:53:43,220
that and what you see is not always what

1240
00:53:47,890 --> 00:53:45,049
you get and it's got this weird

1241
00:53:49,660 --> 00:53:47,900
combination of whenever I would go to a

1242
00:53:51,970 --> 00:53:49,670
UFO convention which I didn't go to that

1243
00:53:54,250 --> 00:53:51,980
many out but the ones I went to I'd

1244
00:53:57,220 --> 00:53:54,260
spend half my time being completely

1245
00:53:59,049 --> 00:53:57,230
fascinated by what I was hearing and the

1246
00:54:01,299 --> 00:53:59,059
other half the time just shaking my head

1247
00:54:04,059 --> 00:54:01,309
and laughing because it just was so off

1248
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:04,069
the wall and so far removed from

1249
00:54:09,730 --> 00:54:06,770
anything that I thought was accurate so

1250
00:54:13,359 --> 00:54:09,740
I really I really respect people that

1251
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:13,369
get through the maze of ufology and come

1252
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:16,130
out sane on the other side I haven't

1253
00:54:20,769 --> 00:54:18,170
flown off the deep end I have a number

1254
00:54:22,779 --> 00:54:20,779
of people that I've known who really

1255
00:54:25,359 --> 00:54:22,789
kind of lost their nut basically when

1256
00:54:27,940 --> 00:54:25,369
they got involved in this field is huge

1257
00:54:31,420 --> 00:54:27,950
it's just it's just the amount of people

1258
00:54:34,390 --> 00:54:31,430
that go by the wayside who can't handle

1259
00:54:37,630 --> 00:54:34,400
you know all the ramifications of this

1260
00:54:39,819 --> 00:54:37,640
phenomena so what I really believe I

1261
00:54:41,559 --> 00:54:39,829
have my own theory which I could try to

1262
00:54:43,240 --> 00:54:41,569
tell you but I don't want to be too

1263
00:54:47,049 --> 00:54:43,250
long-winded with it but I have my own

1264
00:54:49,539 --> 00:54:47,059
theory what is really going on yeah

1265
00:54:50,799 --> 00:54:49,549
that's what we want to hear yeah we want

1266
00:54:54,519 --> 00:54:50,809
to hear the long-winded version

1267
00:54:57,789 --> 00:54:54,529
absolutely well first of all I really

1268
00:55:00,279 --> 00:54:57,799
believe that one of the reasons I have

1269
00:55:02,829 --> 00:55:00,289
trouble with the idea of major huge

1270
00:55:05,319 --> 00:55:02,839
conspiracies okay whenever anybody

1271
00:55:07,210 --> 00:55:05,329
believes in a huge conspiracy I have a

1272
00:55:09,700 --> 00:55:07,220
problem with it because I just don't

1273
00:55:12,700 --> 00:55:09,710
think that huge conspiracies are kept

1274
00:55:15,519 --> 00:55:12,710
very well think they leak like crazy so

1275
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:15,529
it's always kind of baffled me how there

1276
00:55:20,079 --> 00:55:18,650
could be this massive UFO conspiracy but

1277
00:55:22,660 --> 00:55:20,089
yet they keep the lid on

1278
00:55:24,699 --> 00:55:22,670
so well and I tried to put those two

1279
00:55:27,789 --> 00:55:24,709
things together for a long time and

1280
00:55:29,769 --> 00:55:27,799
finally came to the conclusion that what

1281
00:55:32,679 --> 00:55:29,779
if something is flying around here and

1282
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:32,689
let's just start with 1947 say that it

1283
00:55:37,059 --> 00:55:34,249
started then which you know of course is

1284
00:55:40,599 --> 00:55:37,069
debatable but something's flying around

1285
00:55:42,670 --> 00:55:40,609
since at least 1947 it's not made in New

1286
00:55:44,380 --> 00:55:42,680
York it's not made in Moscow it's not

1287
00:55:47,039 --> 00:55:44,390
made in Beijing

1288
00:55:50,499 --> 00:55:47,049
it's from somewhere else and it uses a

1289
00:55:54,579 --> 00:55:50,509
technology that is beyond our major

1290
00:55:58,359 --> 00:55:54,589
understanding what is the reason that

1291
00:56:00,400 --> 00:55:58,369
the secret the UFO secret hasn't

1292
00:56:03,609 --> 00:56:00,410
suddenly come bubbling to the surface

1293
00:56:06,910 --> 00:56:03,619
The Smoking Gun it's because there is no

1294
00:56:09,579 --> 00:56:06,920
smoking gun and what I mean by that is I

1295
00:56:12,609 --> 00:56:09,589
believe whoever's behind the UFO

1296
00:56:15,759 --> 00:56:12,619
phenomena has their own agenda and their

1297
00:56:18,519 --> 00:56:15,769
agenda does not involve landing on the

1298
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:18,529
White House lawn and it does not involve

1299
00:56:23,799 --> 00:56:21,170
going on the Larry King show and it does

1300
00:56:26,439 --> 00:56:23,809
not involve you know telling various

1301
00:56:28,089 --> 00:56:26,449
people all the answers of the universe

1302
00:56:30,609 --> 00:56:28,099
who come forward and say they have all

1303
00:56:33,370 --> 00:56:30,619
the answers of the universe instead it

1304
00:56:36,309 --> 00:56:33,380
is something that's extremely covert and

1305
00:56:38,739 --> 00:56:36,319
what we find out about it we find out by

1306
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:38,749
accident in spite of them not because of

1307
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:42,650
them they have a self concealing way of

1308
00:56:47,259 --> 00:56:45,650
doing this and they really don't want a

1309
00:56:50,499 --> 00:56:47,269
lot of attention they want to be doing

1310
00:56:52,269 --> 00:56:50,509
their own thing quietly and without with

1311
00:56:55,359 --> 00:56:52,279
his little interference from us as

1312
00:56:58,359 --> 00:56:55,369
possible so what I believe is if you

1313
00:57:00,880 --> 00:56:58,369
could get into the place in the world

1314
00:57:03,759 --> 00:57:00,890
where we have the most UFO knowledge or

1315
00:57:06,699 --> 00:57:03,769
whatever you wouldn't have Henry

1316
00:57:08,410 --> 00:57:06,709
Kissinger and Richard Nixon and all the

1317
00:57:11,019 --> 00:57:08,420
generals of the world sitting around

1318
00:57:13,029 --> 00:57:11,029
keeping the secret of ufology I don't

1319
00:57:16,509 --> 00:57:13,039
believe in that but instead you would

1320
00:57:18,999 --> 00:57:16,519
have some excellent photographs you have

1321
00:57:21,519 --> 00:57:19,009
maybe some pieces of wreckage you have

1322
00:57:25,209 --> 00:57:21,529
some pretty definitive proof that

1323
00:57:29,140 --> 00:57:25,219
something is here but that doesn't mean

1324
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:29,150
we know what it is and why it's here and

1325
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:33,010
what it wants and I really believe

1326
00:57:40,860 --> 00:57:36,610
that its purpose is so masked to a

1327
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:40,870
number of layers that it's guesswork as

1328
00:57:45,390 --> 00:57:43,210
to you know who they are and why they're

1329
00:57:47,070 --> 00:57:45,400
here what they want in anybody can have

1330
00:57:51,870 --> 00:57:47,080
a theory some theories are better than

1331
00:57:54,750 --> 00:57:51,880
others that the basic expectation that

1332
00:57:57,270 --> 00:57:54,760
there is a secret that if you could just

1333
00:58:00,510 --> 00:57:57,280
get your hands on it it would tell you

1334
00:58:03,030 --> 00:58:00,520
why and what and how and when and all

1335
00:58:05,910 --> 00:58:03,040
that I think there's a very possible

1336
00:58:08,190 --> 00:58:05,920
that they don't know then that's not a

1337
00:58:10,710 --> 00:58:08,200
very sexy theory or whatever but it's

1338
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:10,720
very possible they know there's

1339
00:58:17,100 --> 00:58:13,450
something here they know they can't

1340
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:17,110
control it they can't stop it they can't

1341
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:20,650
interact with it very well but as to why

1342
00:58:25,830 --> 00:58:23,050
they're here and what they want and

1343
00:58:28,770 --> 00:58:25,840
everything I think that's really open to

1344
00:58:30,780 --> 00:58:28,780
speculation and has not been necessarily

1345
00:58:33,300 --> 00:58:30,790
solved and I think that's one of the

1346
00:58:35,310 --> 00:58:33,310
ways that the secret is kept because

1347
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:35,320
there is no secret to keep well of

1348
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:37,690
course that may also work against the

1349
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:39,970
considerations of welfare is a Roswell

1350
00:58:43,170 --> 00:58:42,610
UFO crash we had to have recovered the

1351
00:58:44,940 --> 00:58:43,180
wreckage

1352
00:58:47,550 --> 00:58:44,950
maybe we transferred some of that

1353
00:58:49,110 --> 00:58:47,560
technology into private industry all the

1354
00:58:51,990 --> 00:58:49,120
stuff going on you're saying maybe

1355
00:58:54,300 --> 00:58:52,000
there's no truth to any of that if they

1356
00:58:55,950 --> 00:58:54,310
found the Roswell crash they would have

1357
00:58:59,130 --> 00:58:55,960
something that they know again is not

1358
00:59:01,380 --> 00:58:59,140
earthly based but could they tell you

1359
00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:01,390
how it flies could they tell you what

1360
00:59:06,990 --> 00:59:03,730
its power sources could they tell you

1361
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:07,000
what its home planet of origination is

1362
00:59:13,020 --> 00:59:10,930
no I I think that we I think that could

1363
00:59:15,510 --> 00:59:13,030
be a big secret to the whole thing

1364
00:59:17,070 --> 00:59:15,520
because that's the only thing that

1365
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:17,080
answers the question to me of how do

1366
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:18,970
they keep the lid on this thing they

1367
00:59:23,370 --> 00:59:20,770
keep the lid on it because they don't

1368
00:59:26,370 --> 00:59:23,380
have a lot of answers that they have to

1369
00:59:28,740 --> 00:59:26,380
protect so please understand I'm not

1370
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:28,750
saying for a second that it's not a real

1371
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:30,490
phenomena I believe it's a real

1372
00:59:35,220 --> 00:59:32,650
phenomena I really do

1373
00:59:38,070 --> 00:59:35,230
but I believe it's very self concealing

1374
00:59:42,270 --> 00:59:38,080
and whatever we learn again we learn in

1375
00:59:44,250 --> 00:59:42,280
drips and drabs by accident and that

1376
00:59:46,140 --> 00:59:44,260
whoever they are and whatever they're

1377
00:59:49,740 --> 00:59:46,150
doing and I think you can make a good

1378
00:59:51,060 --> 00:59:49,750
case that abductions is a key to this

1379
00:59:53,430 --> 00:59:51,070
whole thing and that is at the

1380
00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:53,440
centerpiece of this but whoever they are

1381
00:59:57,810 --> 00:59:55,930
they want to do their own thing and they

1382
01:00:00,570 --> 00:59:57,820
don't want a lot of interference from us

1383
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:00,580
that's honestly what I believe now when

1384
01:00:04,970 --> 01:00:02,050
we get to abductions it gets to be very

1385
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:04,980
controversial just the mirror way of

1386
01:00:09,660 --> 01:00:07,330
examining people who claim to have

1387
01:00:11,670 --> 01:00:09,670
abductions can be controversial such as

1388
01:00:13,650 --> 01:00:11,680
using hypnotic regression as you know

1389
01:00:15,810 --> 01:00:13,660
there are different points of view we've

1390
01:00:18,300 --> 01:00:15,820
had but Hopkins talk about using

1391
01:00:20,670 --> 01:00:18,310
hypnotic regression to unearth so-called

1392
01:00:23,190 --> 01:00:20,680
lost memories we've had Kevin Randall

1393
01:00:26,340 --> 01:00:23,200
saying that doesn't work what do you

1394
01:00:29,430 --> 01:00:26,350
think I absolutely believe that it has

1395
01:00:31,830 --> 01:00:29,440
been an effective tool I worked very

1396
01:00:34,590 --> 01:00:31,840
closely with at Hopkins for a number of

1397
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:34,600
years I used to when I was working at

1398
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:36,730
Saturday Night Live in New York I used

1399
01:00:42,780 --> 01:00:39,970
to have I used to just leave the office

1400
01:00:44,910 --> 01:00:42,790
and drag down to Budd Hopkins place and

1401
01:00:49,340 --> 01:00:44,920
sit in on his hypnosis sessions and

1402
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:49,350
watch these incredible incredible

1403
01:00:56,850 --> 01:00:52,570
regressive sessions that they did which

1404
01:00:59,700 --> 01:00:56,860
the emotion level are so powerful and so

1405
01:01:01,500 --> 01:00:59,710
real that you really almost can't watch

1406
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:01,510
a bunch of those and not have it affect

1407
01:01:05,730 --> 01:01:04,330
you I mean it's really hard to watch

1408
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:05,740
that stuff and then come away thinking

1409
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:08,770
oh it's just fantasy or it's it's uh

1410
01:01:15,300 --> 01:01:12,850
it's not real I came to believe it

1411
01:01:17,550 --> 01:01:15,310
Israel i i'm not saying again that

1412
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:17,560
everything we see is what we get as far

1413
01:01:22,110 --> 01:01:20,170
as all the information we get because i

1414
01:01:25,110 --> 01:01:22,120
think again they are giving us

1415
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:25,120
information in in like I said in drips

1416
01:01:29,310 --> 01:01:27,490
and drabs and we take up little pieces

1417
01:01:31,770 --> 01:01:29,320
of the puzzle here and there and try to

1418
01:01:34,350 --> 01:01:31,780
piece them all together sometimes more

1419
01:01:37,020 --> 01:01:34,360
successfully than other time but as far

1420
01:01:39,240 --> 01:01:37,030
as whether there's a real phenomena at

1421
01:01:42,210 --> 01:01:39,250
the core of abductions I absolutely

1422
01:01:44,220 --> 01:01:42,220
believe there is and I think that you

1423
01:01:45,870 --> 01:01:44,230
know you can start to find some patterns

1424
01:01:49,410 --> 01:01:45,880
and obviously but Hopkins did a great

1425
01:01:51,030 --> 01:01:49,420
job of finding patterns finding like if

1426
01:01:53,370 --> 01:01:51,040
you weren't taken as a child you

1427
01:01:54,660 --> 01:01:53,380
probably weren't taken and that it's a

1428
01:01:57,420 --> 01:01:54,670
generational thing

1429
01:02:00,210 --> 01:01:57,430
goes on from year to year and they they

1430
01:02:03,390 --> 01:02:00,220
continually tag you like they would tag

1431
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:03,400
a deer and follow you up take you up

1432
01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:06,010
they have this incredible ability to

1433
01:02:11,580 --> 01:02:09,250
paralyze people that seems to be in like

1434
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:11,590
90 percent of cases people just can't

1435
01:02:19,830 --> 01:02:15,130
move when they take you on which is

1436
01:02:21,690 --> 01:02:19,840
quite a tool you know and so I'm a

1437
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:21,700
definite believer and I know thoughtful

1438
01:02:25,260 --> 01:02:23,410
aid disagrees with me about that and

1439
01:02:28,380 --> 01:02:25,270
doesn't think there's anything to it but

1440
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:28,390
I personally have seen too much with my

1441
01:02:33,780 --> 01:02:31,810
own eyes to to not be a believer that

1442
01:02:35,670 --> 01:02:33,790
there's some reality to the abduction

1443
01:02:37,290 --> 01:02:35,680
phenomenon we'll get into more of this

1444
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:37,300
in a moment we have Tracy tourmate

1445
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:40,090
writer and producer the co-host is Chris

1446
01:02:53,850 --> 01:02:43,090
O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg you're in the

1447
01:02:56,460 --> 01:02:53,860
para cast is there a secret UFO agenda

1448
01:02:58,830 --> 01:02:56,470
to strange creatures from the darkest

1449
01:03:01,530 --> 01:02:58,840
corners of the mind roam the earth is

1450
01:03:03,930 --> 01:03:01,540
there evidence for mind control time

1451
01:03:07,020 --> 01:03:03,940
travel or devious government

1452
01:03:09,540 --> 01:03:07,030
conspiracies find out the inside scoop

1453
01:03:12,300 --> 01:03:09,550
on the latest conspiracies paranormal

1454
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:12,310
activity and at 14 phenomena when you

1455
01:03:17,310 --> 01:03:14,650
subscribe to Tim Beckley's conspiracy

1456
01:03:20,430 --> 01:03:17,320
term it's jam-packed with stories

1457
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:20,440
special book and DVD promotions and the

1458
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:23,170
best news it's absolutely free sent

1459
01:03:29,570 --> 01:03:26,530
right to your mailbox plus a bonus free

1460
01:03:32,130 --> 01:03:29,580
email newsletter sent out every Friday

1461
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:32,140
simply sent an email with your name and

1462
01:03:41,970 --> 01:03:36,610
address to Mister UFO at what TV net

1463
01:03:49,539 --> 01:03:41,980
that's mr. UFO at web TV dotnet find out

1464
01:03:53,989 --> 01:03:52,009
Gold isn't for you today Anderson

1465
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:53,999
president of Midas Resources one of the

1466
01:03:57,890 --> 01:03:55,890
world's premier gold and precious metal

1467
01:03:59,539 --> 01:03:57,900
investing firms I get it you wouldn't

1468
01:04:01,609 --> 01:03:59,549
buy gold if you believed that the

1469
01:04:03,410 --> 01:04:01,619
government is doing a great job that the

1470
01:04:05,479 --> 01:04:03,420
Fed will stop handing out trillions of

1471
01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:05,489
dollars like bailout candy that social

1472
01:04:08,390 --> 01:04:07,170
security would be there for you that's

1473
01:04:10,489 --> 01:04:08,400
not what's happening

1474
01:04:12,529 --> 01:04:10,499
you might even pass on gold if the

1475
01:04:14,719 --> 01:04:12,539
stimulus package wouldn't fuel inflation

1476
01:04:16,699 --> 01:04:14,729
or that the dollar wouldn't lose value

1477
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:16,709
or that your retirement would be secure

1478
01:04:21,109 --> 01:04:19,170
if all looks rosy to you then now is not

1479
01:04:22,519 --> 01:04:21,119
the time to buy gold for the realists

1480
01:04:24,769 --> 01:04:22,529
there have never been more sobering

1481
01:04:27,890 --> 01:04:24,779
reasons to diversify with goal since

1482
01:04:30,410 --> 01:04:27,900
2001 the US Dollar Index has tanked 30

1483
01:04:32,420 --> 01:04:30,420
percent while gold has risen 300 percent

1484
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:32,430
right now savvy investors are adding

1485
01:04:36,650 --> 01:04:34,650
gold to their portfolios you should to

1486
01:04:38,329 --> 01:04:36,660
find out what they know call us and I'll

1487
01:04:40,609 --> 01:04:38,339
send you 10 reasons why gold will do

1488
01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:40,619
very well three eight hundred six eight

1489
01:04:45,259 --> 01:04:42,690
six two two three seven eight hundred

1490
01:04:47,299 --> 01:04:45,269
six eight six two two three seven that's

1491
01:04:51,709 --> 01:04:47,309
eight hundred six eight six two two

1492
01:04:53,749 --> 01:04:51,719
three seven what is the number one

1493
01:04:56,059 --> 01:04:53,759
secret to all your health problems I'll

1494
01:04:57,920 --> 01:04:56,069
give you a hint dr. Alexis Carroll kept

1495
01:04:59,059 --> 01:04:57,930
chicken-heart tissue alive for twenty

1496
01:05:00,799 --> 01:04:59,069
eight years in a test-tube

1497
01:05:02,479 --> 01:05:00,809
he said the cells remained youthful so

1498
01:05:04,219 --> 01:05:02,489
long as the metabolic wastes were washed

1499
01:05:06,289 --> 01:05:04,229
away but that when wastes were allowed

1500
01:05:08,299 --> 01:05:06,299
to accumulate in and around the cell the

1501
01:05:09,949 --> 01:05:08,309
cell would age and then die so the key

1502
01:05:12,049 --> 01:05:09,959
to raiding health is cellular

1503
01:05:14,059 --> 01:05:12,059
cleanliness and the key to keeping your

1504
01:05:15,650 --> 01:05:14,069
cells clean of chemicals free radicals

1505
01:05:18,439 --> 01:05:15,660
and heavy metals that we are bombarded

1506
01:05:21,019 --> 01:05:18,449
with in our society is glutathione this

1507
01:05:22,729 --> 01:05:21,029
master antioxidant is required by every

1508
01:05:24,949 --> 01:05:22,739
cell of the body who the thigh on levels

1509
01:05:26,599 --> 01:05:24,959
decline due to toxicity and aging the

1510
01:05:29,539 --> 01:05:26,609
number one food to replenish your body's

1511
01:05:32,209 --> 01:05:29,549
glutathione levels up to 64% or more is

1512
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:32,219
unheated grass-fed whey protein powder

1513
01:05:35,749 --> 01:05:34,410
this miraculous superfood may do more

1514
01:05:37,579 --> 01:05:35,759
for your health than any other

1515
01:05:39,680 --> 01:05:37,589
supplement you've ever taken to get your

1516
01:05:41,719 --> 01:05:39,690
free report of the best way protein

1517
01:05:43,939 --> 01:05:41,729
powder call eight eight eight nine eight

1518
01:05:48,699 --> 01:05:43,949
eight three three two five or visit one

1519
01:05:51,799 --> 01:05:48,709
world wacom that's one world whe why.com

1520
01:05:54,229 --> 01:05:51,809
still worrying from GMO to organic food

1521
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:54,239
in jeopardy / economic turmoil there is

1522
01:05:57,289 --> 01:05:55,890
still an answer with just a little

1523
01:05:59,359 --> 01:05:57,299
knowledge easily acquired you will

1524
01:06:00,260 --> 01:05:59,369
literally see food everywhere author

1525
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:00,270
Linda Runyon

1526
01:06:03,770 --> 01:06:01,890
as these skills from having lived this

1527
01:06:06,260 --> 01:06:03,780
way of life and created the tools so you

1528
01:06:08,510 --> 01:06:06,270
could - wild food is economical

1529
01:06:10,490 --> 01:06:08,520
nutritious freely available abundant and

1530
01:06:12,230 --> 01:06:10,500
free for the taking it is a skill that

1531
01:06:13,250 --> 01:06:12,240
takes little time to learn but stays

1532
01:06:15,170 --> 01:06:13,260
with you for life

1533
01:06:17,270 --> 01:06:15,180
and now for a limited time it's all on

1534
01:06:19,250 --> 01:06:17,280
sale it's called the bye-bye old website

1535
01:06:21,290 --> 01:06:19,260
sale can you guess what's coming

1536
01:06:23,030 --> 01:06:21,300
absolutely everything's on sale across

1537
01:06:25,070 --> 01:06:23,040
the board including our already

1538
01:06:27,050 --> 01:06:25,080
discounted packages and you know the

1539
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:27,060
holidays are coming up fast we don't

1540
01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:28,410
know if we're going to have another sale

1541
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:30,690
this year this was the only one in 2010

1542
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:32,610
so far we've been lucky to keep our

1543
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:34,890
prices the same since 2008 but who knows

1544
01:06:38,510 --> 01:06:36,090
what the future will bring

1545
01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:38,520
so though two of the field calm now or

1546
01:06:46,070 --> 01:06:43,530
call toll-free 1-800 the field calm or

1547
01:06:49,780 --> 01:06:46,080
call one eight eight eight fifty one eat

1548
01:06:52,030 --> 01:06:49,790
free and cross food off your to-do list

1549
01:06:55,420 --> 01:06:52,040
America's number one source for

1550
01:07:04,120 --> 01:06:55,430
independent talk radio for over a decade

1551
01:07:08,599 --> 01:07:06,890
we want to hear from you if you have a

1552
01:07:11,420 --> 01:07:08,609
comment or question about the para cast

1553
01:07:14,780 --> 01:07:11,430
sent it to news at the para cast com

1554
01:07:16,790 --> 01:07:14,790
that's news at the para cast comm but if

1555
01:07:18,109 --> 01:07:16,800
you want to catch up on past episodes we

1556
01:07:20,990 --> 01:07:18,119
have hundreds of shows for you to

1557
01:07:24,500 --> 01:07:21,000
download direct from the para cast com

1558
01:07:29,359 --> 01:07:24,510
that's the para cast comm or check us

1559
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:29,369
out on iTunes we return with fray si

1560
01:07:33,550 --> 01:07:31,530
Torme writer and producer we're talking

1561
01:07:35,870 --> 01:07:33,560
about science fiction and science fact

1562
01:07:37,730 --> 01:07:35,880
concentrating now on the factual part of

1563
01:07:39,410 --> 01:07:37,740
the ledger the co-host is Chris O'Brien

1564
01:07:41,630 --> 01:07:39,420
I'm gene Steinberg you're in the para

1565
01:07:43,700 --> 01:07:41,640
cast okay so you believe what's going on

1566
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:43,710
what they're bringing out now of course

1567
01:07:48,079 --> 01:07:45,690
one of the other criticisms voiced about

1568
01:07:50,329 --> 01:07:48,089
people who are not therapists doing this

1569
01:07:53,089 --> 01:07:50,339
hypnotic regression they may ask leading

1570
01:07:55,099 --> 01:07:53,099
questions it caused people to say things

1571
01:07:55,790 --> 01:07:55,109
they might not otherwise say that's a

1572
01:07:59,960 --> 01:07:55,800
real problem

1573
01:08:01,400 --> 01:07:59,970
problem is contamination and when I

1574
01:08:04,220 --> 01:08:01,410
first started getting involved in this

1575
01:08:06,079 --> 01:08:04,230
stuff if you asked a hundred people to

1576
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:06,089
draw an alien you might have gotten a

1577
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:07,770
hundred different responses now you

1578
01:08:11,690 --> 01:08:09,450
asked someone to draw an alien and you

1579
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:11,700
got guy was a big gray head and big

1580
01:08:16,099 --> 01:08:14,010
black eyes and that has seeped into the

1581
01:08:19,579 --> 01:08:16,109
americana into the public consciousness

1582
01:08:21,979 --> 01:08:19,589
so you can't be sure that somebody

1583
01:08:24,140 --> 01:08:21,989
hasn't read about this somewhere else or

1584
01:08:25,700 --> 01:08:24,150
seen a movie or seen a special or

1585
01:08:27,559 --> 01:08:25,710
whatever and if they're not being

1586
01:08:29,990 --> 01:08:27,569
influenced so it's reached a point of

1587
01:08:31,490 --> 01:08:30,000
over saturation you have to take things

1588
01:08:33,860 --> 01:08:31,500
with more of a grain of salt I think

1589
01:08:36,860 --> 01:08:33,870
then you did say twenty or thirty years

1590
01:08:39,410 --> 01:08:36,870
ago so there are definite issues and I

1591
01:08:41,900 --> 01:08:39,420
definitely think leading questions can

1592
01:08:44,059 --> 01:08:41,910
be serious problems as well as the

1593
01:08:46,550 --> 01:08:44,069
technique that some people use when they

1594
01:08:48,110 --> 01:08:46,560
do their hypnosis it's not a perfect

1595
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:48,120
science that's for sure

1596
01:08:54,530 --> 01:08:50,930
but at the core of it again there is a

1597
01:08:57,680 --> 01:08:54,540
consistency to these reports and a cold

1598
01:08:59,570 --> 01:08:57,690
hard terror to these reports somebody in

1599
01:09:01,970 --> 01:08:59,580
the book initially talked about my point

1600
01:09:04,390 --> 01:09:01,980
of view on aliens and how it seemed to

1601
01:09:07,130 --> 01:09:04,400
be so negative and it seemed to be so

1602
01:09:09,300 --> 01:09:07,140
horrible or whatever and I guess it's

1603
01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:09,310
true because I don't see

1604
01:09:14,370 --> 01:09:11,290
the induction experience as a positive

1605
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:14,380
experience for human beings and I know a

1606
01:09:18,510 --> 01:09:15,970
lot of people have tried to turn it into

1607
01:09:21,510 --> 01:09:18,520
that and it said if we can just get past

1608
01:09:22,950 --> 01:09:21,520
the fear factor and you can see that

1609
01:09:24,809 --> 01:09:22,960
they're trying to help us and they're

1610
01:09:27,059 --> 01:09:24,819
our space brothers and they're here to

1611
01:09:30,150 --> 01:09:27,069
Pat us on the head and lead us to the

1612
01:09:32,579 --> 01:09:30,160
right way and cure our pollution and all

1613
01:09:34,110 --> 01:09:32,589
that solve all the problems yeah I don't

1614
01:09:36,480 --> 01:09:34,120
see a lot of evidence of that I see

1615
01:09:38,820 --> 01:09:36,490
people who are not necessarily being

1616
01:09:41,579 --> 01:09:38,830
cruel but they're not being particularly

1617
01:09:43,050 --> 01:09:41,589
kind and they basically have a job to do

1618
01:09:44,610 --> 01:09:43,060
and they're gonna do it and they're

1619
01:09:46,829 --> 01:09:44,620
gonna paralyze you and they're gonna

1620
01:09:49,770 --> 01:09:46,839
take your blood and your your over and

1621
01:09:51,540 --> 01:09:49,780
your tissue your sperm etc and they're

1622
01:09:54,660 --> 01:09:51,550
gonna do for their own purposes or the

1623
01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:54,670
minimum of comforts they're gonna give

1624
01:09:57,750 --> 01:09:55,930
you a little pat on the head and send

1625
01:09:59,460 --> 01:09:57,760
you on your way and erase your memory so

1626
01:10:01,770 --> 01:09:59,470
you don't even remember what happened

1627
01:10:03,780 --> 01:10:01,780
that to me there's not bode very well

1628
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:03,790
fitting the human race to be really

1629
01:10:07,650 --> 01:10:06,010
honest with you well you think that one

1630
01:10:09,240 --> 01:10:07,660
of the other problems with abductions is

1631
01:10:12,300 --> 01:10:09,250
the fact that there's so many of them I

1632
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:12,310
mean if we can believe all this whoever

1633
01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:15,010
is responsible they're abducting mass

1634
01:10:20,640 --> 01:10:17,770
numbers of people yeah the number seemed

1635
01:10:22,800 --> 01:10:20,650
to be too large and that could be

1636
01:10:26,790 --> 01:10:22,810
against some miscalculations on people's

1637
01:10:30,360 --> 01:10:26,800
parts but I do believe that it's more

1638
01:10:32,190 --> 01:10:30,370
widespread than it was first imagined I

1639
01:10:34,740 --> 01:10:32,200
do believe that it's it's actually

1640
01:10:38,970 --> 01:10:34,750
infiltrated various levels of society

1641
01:10:40,860 --> 01:10:38,980
and you know I'm whenever I speak about

1642
01:10:42,750 --> 01:10:40,870
abduction it's like I feel like I'm in

1643
01:10:45,810 --> 01:10:42,760
the twilight zone or the Outer Limits to

1644
01:10:48,350 --> 01:10:45,820
my old favorite shows I feel like I'm in

1645
01:10:51,540 --> 01:10:48,360
an episode because it's so it's so

1646
01:10:53,640 --> 01:10:51,550
fantastic in nature to imagine that

1647
01:10:56,730 --> 01:10:53,650
there's some other race that you know

1648
01:10:58,980 --> 01:10:56,740
picks us up paralyzes us does these

1649
01:11:01,500 --> 01:10:58,990
things to us and puts us back in our

1650
01:11:04,620 --> 01:11:01,510
environment again it sounds like bad

1651
01:11:07,650 --> 01:11:04,630
science fiction it really does and I do

1652
01:11:09,630 --> 01:11:07,660
you separate Traci the dream experiences

1653
01:11:11,850 --> 01:11:09,640
because I had some people telling us

1654
01:11:14,190 --> 01:11:11,860
abduction experiences and I said you

1655
01:11:18,030 --> 01:11:14,200
know what what if they had some kind of

1656
01:11:20,340 --> 01:11:18,040
dream paralysis situation

1657
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:20,350
200 abduction cases you can throw out a

1658
01:11:24,530 --> 01:11:22,570
good number of them for the reasons

1659
01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:24,540
we've talked about the contamination

1660
01:11:31,860 --> 01:11:28,810
dreams fantasies delusions I mean I

1661
01:11:33,930 --> 01:11:31,870
believe me I think that that exists and

1662
01:11:36,270 --> 01:11:33,940
I think that's a problem and I think

1663
01:11:38,670 --> 01:11:36,280
that there's a certain percentage of

1664
01:11:41,850 --> 01:11:38,680
people that experience all of those

1665
01:11:42,750 --> 01:11:41,860
things so again I go back to separating

1666
01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:42,760
the wheat from the chaff

1667
01:11:48,690 --> 01:11:46,690
you really have to search carefully and

1668
01:11:51,780 --> 01:11:48,700
analytically and with your feet on the

1669
01:11:54,420 --> 01:11:51,790
ground when you examine this stuff about

1670
01:11:57,660 --> 01:11:54,430
which cases are quote-unquote real and

1671
01:11:59,430 --> 01:11:57,670
which cases are not and I basically

1672
01:12:01,710 --> 01:11:59,440
believe from the experience that I've

1673
01:12:03,900 --> 01:12:01,720
had I've been I've been extremely lucky

1674
01:12:06,900 --> 01:12:03,910
because people like that hopped into the

1675
01:12:09,090 --> 01:12:06,910
David Jacobs and there was a guy named

1676
01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:09,100
Richard Neal here in Los Angeles I don't

1677
01:12:12,420 --> 01:12:10,690
know if you've ever heard of him but

1678
01:12:15,060 --> 01:12:12,430
people that did extensive research on

1679
01:12:17,340 --> 01:12:15,070
this I was able to watch them from a

1680
01:12:19,680 --> 01:12:17,350
close distance and really analyze what

1681
01:12:22,440 --> 01:12:19,690
they were doing and I can't believe

1682
01:12:25,410 --> 01:12:22,450
instead at the core of this there's a

1683
01:12:27,780 --> 01:12:25,420
real phenomenon well then the raises the

1684
01:12:29,610 --> 01:12:27,790
question we of course consider here is

1685
01:12:32,190 --> 01:12:29,620
all right we have something going on

1686
01:12:34,020 --> 01:12:32,200
that we don't understand we have laymen

1687
01:12:36,060 --> 01:12:34,030
doing a lot of the research but what

1688
01:12:38,510 --> 01:12:36,070
about bringing more professional

1689
01:12:41,670 --> 01:12:38,520
therapists scientists into this thing

1690
01:12:44,430 --> 01:12:41,680
into the problem that age-old problem in

1691
01:12:48,270 --> 01:12:44,440
UFOs where there's such a ridicule

1692
01:12:51,030 --> 01:12:48,280
factor and such a fear of ridicule by

1693
01:12:55,110 --> 01:12:51,040
mainstream scientists I mean it's truly

1694
01:12:57,600 --> 01:12:55,120
kind of unbelievable how scared they all

1695
01:13:00,330 --> 01:12:57,610
are of their reputations and it's been a

1696
01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:00,340
very small few that has with good

1697
01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:01,690
credentials who have been willing to

1698
01:13:05,460 --> 01:13:03,250
come forward and say you know this there

1699
01:13:07,440 --> 01:13:05,470
seems to be something to this they're

1700
01:13:10,620 --> 01:13:07,450
all terrified of it not everybody does

1701
01:13:12,150 --> 01:13:10,630
with John Max is willing to do and he

1702
01:13:15,440 --> 01:13:12,160
paid a big price for it

1703
01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:15,450
so I think that UFO community

1704
01:13:20,220 --> 01:13:18,370
desperately needs good skeptics which it

1705
01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:20,230
doesn't have and it desperately needs

1706
01:13:25,200 --> 01:13:23,050
good scientists which it generally

1707
01:13:27,540 --> 01:13:25,210
doesn't have and that's a shame because

1708
01:13:29,940 --> 01:13:27,550
they're missing the boat there really

1709
01:13:33,030 --> 01:13:29,950
there's really something going on

1710
01:13:35,340 --> 01:13:33,040
right under their noses and they're so

1711
01:13:37,620 --> 01:13:35,350
locked in their own Dogma that they

1712
01:13:39,630 --> 01:13:37,630
can't see it we can't see the forest for

1713
01:13:42,090 --> 01:13:39,640
the trees of this day well jock valet

1714
01:13:45,060 --> 01:13:42,100
brought up several of these exact points

1715
01:13:47,030 --> 01:13:45,070
in our show with him and and he did

1716
01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:47,040
address the the whole issue of

1717
01:13:51,720 --> 01:13:49,930
mainstream science keeping this subject

1718
01:13:54,540 --> 01:13:51,730
at arm's length and and in most cases

1719
01:13:57,210 --> 01:13:54,550
not he not even acknowledging it one of

1720
01:13:58,200 --> 01:13:57,220
the things that struck me in your your

1721
01:13:59,880 --> 01:13:58,210
book with

1722
01:14:02,970 --> 01:13:59,890
valet fast Walker's was the very

1723
01:14:06,780 --> 01:14:02,980
interesting detail of the the biological

1724
01:14:09,480 --> 01:14:06,790
nature of the actual craft that was that

1725
01:14:12,840 --> 01:14:09,490
was I guess under lock and key and being

1726
01:14:14,520 --> 01:14:12,850
secured by by the sort of shadowy

1727
01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:14,530
military presence in the book it's been

1728
01:14:18,390 --> 01:14:16,690
a long time since I read it but who came

1729
01:14:20,100 --> 01:14:18,400
up with that idea this is one thing I

1730
01:14:22,410 --> 01:14:20,110
wanted to ask before I forgot who came

1731
01:14:25,140 --> 01:14:22,420
up with that that particular twist that

1732
01:14:29,160 --> 01:14:25,150
I found that fascinating that the the

1733
01:14:31,710 --> 01:14:29,170
ship actually was a a biological entity

1734
01:14:33,990 --> 01:14:31,720
that was a mechanical in nature but

1735
01:14:36,090 --> 01:14:34,000
biological at the same time was kind of

1736
01:14:37,590 --> 01:14:36,100
a group concept that came out of many of

1737
01:14:39,630 --> 01:14:37,600
our meetings where we were trying to

1738
01:14:42,030 --> 01:14:39,640
come up with some new angles on the

1739
01:14:44,310 --> 01:14:42,040
whole UFO phenomena and one thing that

1740
01:14:47,010 --> 01:14:44,320
intrigued us was the idea that being

1741
01:14:49,200 --> 01:14:47,020
biological in some way and these could

1742
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:49,210
actually be living things rather than

1743
01:14:54,020 --> 01:14:51,730
machines or some combination of both so

1744
01:14:56,010 --> 01:14:54,030
I think that that came from a lot of

1745
01:14:58,830 --> 01:14:56,020
brainstorming over the course of the

1746
01:15:02,850 --> 01:14:58,840
years on that project that's my best

1747
01:15:04,950 --> 01:15:02,860
recollection no because I found that

1748
01:15:06,840 --> 01:15:04,960
particular aspect one of those things

1749
01:15:08,580 --> 01:15:06,850
that I always have been interested in

1750
01:15:10,910 --> 01:15:08,590
and looked for when I when I read

1751
01:15:13,290 --> 01:15:10,920
accounts that you know over the years

1752
01:15:16,170 --> 01:15:13,300
occasionally that particular detail will

1753
01:15:18,840 --> 01:15:16,180
come up where it seems that the ship is

1754
01:15:22,470 --> 01:15:18,850
able to respond to the thought processes

1755
01:15:24,420 --> 01:15:22,480
of let's say a contact II or someone

1756
01:15:26,160 --> 01:15:24,430
who's been abducted or it appears the

1757
01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:26,170
pilots of the craft are able to

1758
01:15:30,030 --> 01:15:28,690
manipulate the craft in a way that would

1759
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:30,040
suggest that there's some sort of a

1760
01:15:35,400 --> 01:15:33,010
biological connection going on we have a

1761
01:15:37,320 --> 01:15:35,410
biologic ssin and it takes a couple of

1762
01:15:39,660 --> 01:15:37,330
minutes to explain ladies and gentlemen

1763
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:39,670
our guest is Tracy Torme the co-host is

1764
01:15:52,110 --> 01:15:42,010
Chris O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg your

1765
01:15:54,030 --> 01:15:52,120
the parry cast ray Perkins a reclusive

1766
01:15:57,180 --> 01:15:54,040
veteran burned out from the Gulf War

1767
01:15:59,400 --> 01:15:57,190
lives tortured by relentless perplexing

1768
01:16:02,010 --> 01:15:59,410
nightmares nightmares of a horrific

1769
01:16:03,870 --> 01:16:02,020
battle in deep space and of a mysterious

1770
01:16:06,690 --> 01:16:03,880
woman suffering an agony for her

1771
01:16:11,690 --> 01:16:06,700
devastated world a woman not yet born

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calling across centuries to him then a

1773
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coincidence leads him to his destiny his

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chance to alter the universe attack of

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1869
01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:17,340
we are the GCM radio network we returned

1870
01:20:22,430 --> 01:20:20,010
with Tracy Torme our co-host is Chris

1871
01:20:24,320 --> 01:20:22,440
O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg you're in the

1872
01:20:26,270 --> 01:20:24,330
power cast Chris you want to pick up

1873
01:20:29,450 --> 01:20:26,280
further on this line of questioning well

1874
01:20:32,120 --> 01:20:29,460
I had a very interesting case that I

1875
01:20:34,670 --> 01:20:32,130
personally you know have as many

1876
01:20:37,010 --> 01:20:34,680
listeners now have had quite a few

1877
01:20:39,950 --> 01:20:37,020
hundred investigations under my belt and

1878
01:20:42,980 --> 01:20:39,960
very very few claims of abductions I've

1879
01:20:46,130 --> 01:20:42,990
had a few visitation cases again they're

1880
01:20:48,860 --> 01:20:46,140
very rare but one of my more perplexing

1881
01:20:51,560 --> 01:20:48,870
cases featured a very very intelligent

1882
01:20:54,770 --> 01:20:51,570
Menza actually society member who was

1883
01:20:57,560 --> 01:20:54,780
taken aboard a ship and and the detail

1884
01:20:59,240 --> 01:20:57,570
that that he was able to relate to me

1885
01:21:01,490 --> 01:20:59,250
that that suggested some sort of

1886
01:21:04,310 --> 01:21:01,500
biological connection was the very

1887
01:21:08,000 --> 01:21:04,320
thinking of something he was able to he

1888
01:21:10,610 --> 01:21:08,010
thought of gold of like treasure and the

1889
01:21:12,830 --> 01:21:10,620
ship instantly went and then was able to

1890
01:21:16,700 --> 01:21:12,840
expose with some sort of penetrating

1891
01:21:19,160 --> 01:21:16,710
radar type equipment a lost treasure

1892
01:21:20,630 --> 01:21:19,170
hoard below them about a thousand feet

1893
01:21:23,120 --> 01:21:20,640
they were hovering over the sing in a

1894
01:21:25,640 --> 01:21:23,130
ship and when he tried to figure out how

1895
01:21:27,950 --> 01:21:25,650
the ship was doing this the ship

1896
01:21:30,770 --> 01:21:27,960
responded by masking all the controls

1897
01:21:32,870 --> 01:21:30,780
and mast of any sort of instrumentation

1898
01:21:34,670 --> 01:21:32,880
that was there but he he said it was

1899
01:21:35,750 --> 01:21:34,680
almost like it was alive that there was

1900
01:21:37,670 --> 01:21:35,760
some sort of living

1901
01:21:39,080 --> 01:21:37,680
I was almost like tissue that was

1902
01:21:42,170 --> 01:21:39,090
involved and not something that was

1903
01:21:44,270 --> 01:21:42,180
purely mechanical so this is an example

1904
01:21:48,200 --> 01:21:44,280
of some some sort of biological

1905
01:21:50,150 --> 01:21:48,210
component that may exist in theory and I

1906
01:21:51,770 --> 01:21:50,160
just I brought that up because I was

1907
01:21:53,870 --> 01:21:51,780
very fascinated with that particular

1908
01:21:56,210 --> 01:21:53,880
detail in fast Walker's I thought that

1909
01:21:58,790 --> 01:21:56,220
that was quite ingenious as a plot

1910
01:22:00,500 --> 01:21:58,800
element but but it did sort of resonate

1911
01:22:02,440 --> 01:22:00,510
with me in terms of some of the cases

1912
01:22:07,430 --> 01:22:02,450
that I personally have investigate

1913
01:22:09,440 --> 01:22:07,440
so that was my point Jean okay I said we

1914
01:22:11,390 --> 01:22:09,450
don't talk about the biological aspect

1915
01:22:13,910 --> 01:22:11,400
of this phenomenon very very often when

1916
01:22:16,730 --> 01:22:13,920
it comes to the actual you know the

1917
01:22:20,660 --> 01:22:16,740
actual gear the equipment the the craft

1918
01:22:23,120 --> 01:22:20,670
themselves is up people are probably

1919
01:22:26,360 --> 01:22:23,130
more comfortable with the nuts and bolts

1920
01:22:29,090 --> 01:22:26,370
you know angle that it's machinery and

1921
01:22:32,930 --> 01:22:29,100
that it's just an advanced piece of

1922
01:22:36,110 --> 01:22:32,940
technology but you know that famous old

1923
01:22:38,570 --> 01:22:36,120
thing of future science would be

1924
01:22:40,430 --> 01:22:38,580
indistinguishable from magic you know

1925
01:22:43,340 --> 01:22:40,440
there's a lot to that just try to

1926
01:22:46,790 --> 01:22:43,350
imagine 100 200 years ago explaining the

1927
01:22:49,010 --> 01:22:46,800
concept of television or telephones or

1928
01:22:50,570 --> 01:22:49,020
you know the idea that you could talk to

1929
01:22:53,380 --> 01:22:50,580
someone instantly at the other end of

1930
01:22:56,420 --> 01:22:53,390
the world by picking up a device or

1931
01:22:59,060 --> 01:22:56,430
watch them on a screen or whatever that

1932
01:23:01,490 --> 01:22:59,070
would have seemed completely beyond you

1933
01:23:04,790 --> 01:23:01,500
know any possibility and yet there it is

1934
01:23:07,250 --> 01:23:04,800
so I think that you know if science

1935
01:23:09,830 --> 01:23:07,260
progresses a lot of these things will

1936
01:23:14,120 --> 01:23:09,840
you know the possibility of biological

1937
01:23:16,520 --> 01:23:14,130
of a biological component to this is you

1938
01:23:19,280 --> 01:23:16,530
know very possible okay you know the

1939
01:23:23,090 --> 01:23:19,290
late - T Sanderson speculate about

1940
01:23:23,090 --> 01:23:23,100
living UFOs don't know

1941
01:23:29,330 --> 01:23:26,030
so the Trevor James constable - indeed

1942
01:23:31,370 --> 01:23:29,340
like the space critters right so is it

1943
01:23:33,470 --> 01:23:31,380
possible UFOs then are living creatures

1944
01:23:36,410 --> 01:23:33,480
certainly a lot of the possibilities the

1945
01:23:39,350 --> 01:23:36,420
other is that the entities allegedly

1946
01:23:41,570 --> 01:23:39,360
seen within them or robotic I'll tell

1947
01:23:45,560 --> 01:23:41,580
you guys an interesting thing that Gene

1948
01:23:48,710 --> 01:23:45,570
Roddenberry was extremely anti UFO which

1949
01:23:50,900 --> 01:23:48,720
surprises a lot of people eyes really

1950
01:23:54,050 --> 01:23:50,910
really let them down by telling him this

1951
01:23:57,500 --> 01:23:54,060
but he was not only like anti UFO he was

1952
01:23:59,180 --> 01:23:57,510
like angrily anti UFO he called me in

1953
01:24:01,220 --> 01:23:59,190
once and said he heard that I was

1954
01:24:04,250 --> 01:24:01,230
working on this fire in the sky thing

1955
01:24:07,190 --> 01:24:04,260
and how human disappointed in me he was

1956
01:24:09,020 --> 01:24:07,200
and how you you know that all of those

1957
01:24:11,150 --> 01:24:09,030
things are nonsense and they're only

1958
01:24:13,940 --> 01:24:11,160
seen at 4:00 in the morning

1959
01:24:16,550 --> 01:24:13,950
drunken farmers in Nebraska and no

1960
01:24:19,100 --> 01:24:16,560
credible person that has ever seen a UFO

1961
01:24:26,390 --> 01:24:19,110
and decided well was a drunken farmer in

1962
01:24:28,310 --> 01:24:26,400
Nebraska he was really anti it and what

1963
01:24:32,540 --> 01:24:28,320
I learned it was really fascinating when

1964
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:32,550
we had a we had a group of consultants

1965
01:24:38,240 --> 01:24:34,770
that worked on star extract they work

1966
01:24:40,580 --> 01:24:38,250
with JPL and they were on call for us so

1967
01:24:43,370 --> 01:24:40,590
if we ever had a technical question in

1968
01:24:46,040 --> 01:24:43,380
the scientific nature we could call them

1969
01:24:48,140 --> 01:24:46,050
and shake their brains and generally

1970
01:24:50,420 --> 01:24:48,150
like I would call and say I need to do

1971
01:24:52,820 --> 01:24:50,430
this in this story how do I make it

1972
01:24:54,740 --> 01:24:52,830
scientifically credible and then they

1973
01:24:57,020 --> 01:24:54,750
would brainstorm with me and go over

1974
01:24:58,790 --> 01:24:57,030
different ways to do things so over the

1975
01:25:02,300 --> 01:24:58,800
course of time I got to know a bunch of

1976
01:25:06,200 --> 01:25:02,310
these JPL guys and I discovered that

1977
01:25:09,350 --> 01:25:06,210
they all all of them thought UFOs

1978
01:25:12,980 --> 01:25:09,360
belonged right there with leprechauns

1979
01:25:15,230 --> 01:25:12,990
and goblins and the Loch Ness monster

1980
01:25:17,780 --> 01:25:15,240
and was just the biggest bunch of

1981
01:25:21,980 --> 01:25:17,790
nonsense in the world and here are all

1982
01:25:25,130 --> 01:25:21,990
these really bright guys okay and they

1983
01:25:27,680 --> 01:25:25,140
were so badly misinformed I mean they

1984
01:25:31,280 --> 01:25:27,690
would stop the same kind of you know

1985
01:25:32,960 --> 01:25:31,290
things of like saying nobody oversees a

1986
01:25:35,180 --> 01:25:32,970
mix of drunken farmers at 4:00 in the

1987
01:25:37,940 --> 01:25:35,190
morning they've never seen on radar and

1988
01:25:40,520 --> 01:25:37,950
bla bla bla bla and I had a great time

1989
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:40,530
over the course of years turning them

1990
01:25:46,450 --> 01:25:44,010
onto some cases you know I remember the

1991
01:25:49,190 --> 01:25:46,460
Lonnie Zamora case in Socorro New Mexico

1992
01:25:52,280 --> 01:25:49,200
which is always in my mind been one of

1993
01:25:54,020 --> 01:25:52,290
the most important cases ever turning

1994
01:25:55,580 --> 01:25:54,030
them on to and saying okay tell me your

1995
01:25:59,330 --> 01:25:55,590
explanation for this I really want to

1996
01:26:00,800 --> 01:25:59,340
hear what this was and I gave them all

1997
01:26:03,560 --> 01:26:00,810
you know a bunch of written material on

1998
01:26:07,370 --> 01:26:03,570
it and had them study it and they were

1999
01:26:09,650 --> 01:26:07,380
very uneasy because they couldn't really

2000
01:26:12,440 --> 01:26:09,660
come up with a simple quick answer and

2001
01:26:14,450 --> 01:26:12,450
they were very surprised to find that

2002
01:26:17,060 --> 01:26:14,460
there were such cases that it were there

2003
01:26:20,360 --> 01:26:17,070
was some solid evidence somewhere with

2004
01:26:21,530 --> 01:26:20,370
physical you know components and things

2005
01:26:25,010 --> 01:26:21,540
and that you're supposed to show you

2006
01:26:27,680 --> 01:26:25,020
again that the the anti UFO you know

2007
01:26:29,810 --> 01:26:27,690
contingent whether it's official

2008
01:26:32,300 --> 01:26:29,820
skeptics or just the average person on

2009
01:26:33,260 --> 01:26:32,310
the street that you know that thinks

2010
01:26:36,470 --> 01:26:33,270
it's nonsense

2011
01:26:39,260 --> 01:26:36,480
they were extremely badly informed I

2012
01:26:42,170 --> 01:26:39,270
mean they really they felt they don't

2013
01:26:45,230 --> 01:26:42,180
understand anything about the phenomena

2014
01:26:47,360 --> 01:26:45,240
do you guys know seth shostack well yeah

2015
01:26:49,280 --> 01:26:47,370
it's kind of hard to avoid him yeah well

2016
01:26:51,920 --> 01:26:49,290
you know I did a convention with him and

2017
01:26:55,580 --> 01:26:51,930
he went off again you know about

2018
01:26:58,220 --> 01:26:55,590
treating UFOs with me like how do you

2019
01:27:00,260 --> 01:26:58,230
you know what's next Bigfoot you know I

2020
01:27:02,150 --> 01:27:00,270
mean it's just putting it into the

2021
01:27:04,100 --> 01:27:02,160
category of the ridiculous

2022
01:27:06,530 --> 01:27:04,110
immediately and I'm thinking you're

2023
01:27:08,150 --> 01:27:06,540
spending all your time listening to

2024
01:27:10,100 --> 01:27:08,160
radio telescopes to try to hear a

2025
01:27:12,470 --> 01:27:10,110
whisper from the stars to prove there's

2026
01:27:15,230 --> 01:27:12,480
life and something else is going on

2027
01:27:18,200 --> 01:27:15,240
right under your nose that you have no

2028
01:27:20,000 --> 01:27:18,210
interest in none whatsoever you know

2029
01:27:22,040 --> 01:27:20,010
what's ridiculous is thinking radio

2030
01:27:25,310 --> 01:27:22,050
waves are being used by aliens that that

2031
01:27:27,470 --> 01:27:25,320
to me is even more ridiculous yeah it's

2032
01:27:29,630 --> 01:27:27,480
because they want Seth to be able to

2033
01:27:31,700 --> 01:27:29,640
hear them they have something to say for

2034
01:27:35,090 --> 01:27:31,710
him yeah why I tell them where to go on

2035
01:27:37,460 --> 01:27:35,100
how to get there yeah so I always find

2036
01:27:41,210 --> 01:27:37,470
that when you meet people that are

2037
01:27:43,160 --> 01:27:41,220
really anti UFO and are intelligent

2038
01:27:46,850 --> 01:27:43,170
people that they're almost always

2039
01:27:49,610 --> 01:27:46,860
extremely misinformed they just don't

2040
01:27:52,250 --> 01:27:49,620
they don't understand I mean if he just

2041
01:27:55,580 --> 01:27:52,260
showed someone the amount I mean the guy

2042
01:27:58,760 --> 01:27:55,590
like Ted Phillips who all he does is you

2043
01:28:01,760 --> 01:27:58,770
know physical trace cases and all he has

2044
01:28:03,320 --> 01:28:01,770
is you know tons of soil from all over

2045
01:28:06,400 --> 01:28:03,330
the world where that soil has been

2046
01:28:09,260 --> 01:28:06,410
chemically altered by something you know

2047
01:28:12,500 --> 01:28:09,270
had a sighting I mean how do they

2048
01:28:14,420 --> 01:28:12,510
explain that has been on the power cast

2049
01:28:16,640 --> 01:28:14,430
a couple of times who had a quite a bit

2050
01:28:17,900 --> 01:28:16,650
of a chance to talk with him and go over

2051
01:28:19,610 --> 01:28:17,910
his research I understand when you're

2052
01:28:20,960 --> 01:28:19,620
coming from let's go back to the

2053
01:28:23,090 --> 01:28:20,970
government though because a lot of

2054
01:28:26,060 --> 01:28:23,100
things occur to me okay the government

2055
01:28:29,240 --> 01:28:26,070
has nothing to disclose but what about

2056
01:28:32,720 --> 01:28:29,250
government disinformation pulling pranks

2057
01:28:33,970 --> 01:28:32,730
throwing things into the wilderness to

2058
01:28:35,860 --> 01:28:33,980
confuse everybody

2059
01:28:37,210 --> 01:28:35,870
yes I believe in that I believe that

2060
01:28:39,700 --> 01:28:37,220
there is a certain amount of government

2061
01:28:42,930 --> 01:28:39,710
disinformation and I think it's all part

2062
01:28:45,940 --> 01:28:42,940
of the same thing in other words if 30

2063
01:28:47,920 --> 01:28:45,950
50 60 70 years ago you came to the

2064
01:28:51,310 --> 01:28:47,930
conclusion that something's flying

2065
01:28:54,700 --> 01:28:51,320
around from somewhere else okay you can

2066
01:28:56,770 --> 01:28:54,710
quietly you know tabulate your reports

2067
01:28:59,830 --> 01:28:56,780
in your sightings or you get a database

2068
01:29:03,190 --> 01:28:59,840
going at the same time you just in a

2069
01:29:05,140 --> 01:29:03,200
very subtle way push this information on

2070
01:29:08,170 --> 01:29:05,150
the public on the general public and

2071
01:29:11,620 --> 01:29:08,180
that the combination of those two things

2072
01:29:14,380 --> 01:29:11,630
is what keeps the whole subject in a

2073
01:29:16,600 --> 01:29:14,390
layer of fog you know and I think that

2074
01:29:18,790 --> 01:29:16,610
it's very effective so I don't get me

2075
01:29:21,820 --> 01:29:18,800
wrong I do think there are people in the

2076
01:29:24,729 --> 01:29:21,830
know who are hiding a secret to some

2077
01:29:26,770 --> 01:29:24,739
extent and the secret is yes there's

2078
01:29:28,840 --> 01:29:26,780
something real here I'll tell you what

2079
01:29:31,240 --> 01:29:28,850
here's something very real ladies and

2080
01:29:31,870 --> 01:29:31,250
gentlemen and that is we have to take

2081
01:29:35,710 --> 01:29:31,880
another break

2082
01:29:38,320 --> 01:29:35,720
Tracy treme joins us the co-host is

2083
01:29:39,890 --> 01:29:38,330
Chris O'Brien I'm gene Steinberg you're

2084
01:29:47,020 --> 01:29:39,900
in the power cast

2085
01:29:52,409 --> 01:29:49,369
[Music]

2086
01:29:55,199 --> 01:29:52,419
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2165
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to address the skeptics listening to

2166
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talk radio you hear multiple commercials

2167
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on products that make you feel better

2168
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and help you lose weight but you don't

2169
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believe it companies come and go

2170
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2171
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desiring a product that works but you're

2172
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tired of getting burned with substandard

2173
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2174
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2175
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2176
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2177
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2178
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sleep well at night knowing life changed

2179
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t customers receiving a real product

2180
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2181
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2182
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2183
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2185
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2186
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2187
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2188
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2189
01:33:48,910 --> 01:33:45,020
log on to get the t-dot-com that's get

2190
01:33:49,600 --> 01:33:48,920
the TT e a calm in my opinion you won't

2191
01:33:52,990 --> 01:33:49,610
be sorry

2192
01:33:57,070 --> 01:33:53,000
the GZ and Radio Network providing the

2193
01:34:14,230 --> 01:33:57,080
world with hard-hitting talk radio G see

2194
01:34:15,010 --> 01:34:14,240
great talk radio starts here I want you

2195
01:34:17,890 --> 01:34:15,020
to notice this

2196
01:34:20,500 --> 01:34:17,900
Tracy Torme every time Chris says the

2197
01:34:27,310 --> 01:34:20,510
para cast the voice gets deeper and

2198
01:34:28,990 --> 01:34:27,320
deeper right well you know it's after a

2199
01:34:31,630 --> 01:34:29,000
while of course you know just sort of

2200
01:34:33,970 --> 01:34:31,640
you know it washes over you like water

2201
01:34:36,280 --> 01:34:33,980
over a duck okay so the government

2202
01:34:38,650 --> 01:34:36,290
pulling things I was even suggesting in

2203
01:34:40,750 --> 01:34:38,660
some of my speculations offhand that the

2204
01:34:42,940 --> 01:34:40,760
government is engaged in pulling a few

2205
01:34:44,770 --> 01:34:42,950
abductions of its own that's been a

2206
01:34:47,080 --> 01:34:44,780
rumor that's been something that's been

2207
01:34:49,210 --> 01:34:47,090
kicked around and there would have been

2208
01:34:50,980 --> 01:34:49,220
some abductions work I've seen there's

2209
01:34:51,310 --> 01:34:50,990
some kind of government involvement in

2210
01:34:53,920 --> 01:34:51,320
it

2211
01:34:56,590 --> 01:34:53,930
boy you really often that palace of

2212
01:35:01,450 --> 01:34:56,600
mirrors when it comes to stuff like that

2213
01:35:02,590 --> 01:35:01,460
because who knows I mean who knows I

2214
01:35:05,800 --> 01:35:02,600
certainly don't for sure

2215
01:35:07,630 --> 01:35:05,810
you know that's possible one of my

2216
01:35:09,790 --> 01:35:07,640
favorite scenes in the old x-files show

2217
01:35:12,580 --> 01:35:09,800
was the military guys that are dressed

2218
01:35:15,460 --> 01:35:12,590
up as aliens conducting you know an

2219
01:35:17,410 --> 01:35:15,470
abduction and then a real a real craft

2220
01:35:19,150 --> 01:35:17,420
comes down with this kind of science

2221
01:35:23,800 --> 01:35:19,160
fiction monster comes out and abducts

2222
01:35:27,610 --> 01:35:23,810
them that was a really brilliant twist

2223
01:35:30,490 --> 01:35:27,620
by Chris Carr great justice one of the

2224
01:35:32,200 --> 01:35:30,500
things that I must mention kind of just

2225
01:35:35,410 --> 01:35:32,210
quickly touching back on our prior

2226
01:35:37,570 --> 01:35:35,420
conversation terms of real good cases

2227
01:35:39,340 --> 01:35:37,580
Leslie Cain just came out with a very

2228
01:35:42,600 --> 01:35:39,350
good book a best-seller on the New York

2229
01:35:45,610 --> 01:35:42,610
Times bestseller list called UFO and

2230
01:35:48,820 --> 01:35:45,620
some of the cases in there are just

2231
01:35:51,460 --> 01:35:48,830
absolutely sterling it's very very

2232
01:35:53,650 --> 01:35:51,470
difficult to to argue with with some of

2233
01:35:55,390 --> 01:35:53,660
the information that was very

2234
01:35:57,400 --> 01:35:55,400
meticulously researched and placed in

2235
01:35:59,230 --> 01:35:57,410
that book and and I think as time goes

2236
01:36:01,450 --> 01:35:59,240
on that we have more and more quality

2237
01:36:03,160 --> 01:36:01,460
data coming out and I think a lot of

2238
01:36:06,700 --> 01:36:03,170
what you're referring to in terms of the

2239
01:36:08,080 --> 01:36:06,710
tone and the giggle factor in the

2240
01:36:10,790 --> 01:36:08,090
scientific community in the mainstream

2241
01:36:13,250 --> 01:36:10,800
is is just basic ignorance

2242
01:36:15,820 --> 01:36:13,260
people just don't they just don't know

2243
01:36:19,790 --> 01:36:15,830
that there is quality data out there to

2244
01:36:22,490 --> 01:36:19,800
to really look over and ponder and one

2245
01:36:23,900 --> 01:36:22,500
of the things that I feel is is really

2246
01:36:25,820 --> 01:36:23,910
kind of taking us down the wrong path

2247
01:36:28,520 --> 01:36:25,830
right now is the whole idea of EXO

2248
01:36:31,010 --> 01:36:28,530
politics and this idea that the

2249
01:36:32,720 --> 01:36:31,020
government who's been probably lying to

2250
01:36:35,570 --> 01:36:32,730
us to a certain degree for 60 plus years

2251
01:36:37,370 --> 01:36:35,580
that even if they do come forward and

2252
01:36:39,170 --> 01:36:37,380
come clean with what they know

2253
01:36:40,730 --> 01:36:39,180
how're we ever going to believe them

2254
01:36:42,200 --> 01:36:40,740
they've been lying to us for 60 years

2255
01:36:45,710 --> 01:36:42,210
what do you think about the whole

2256
01:36:47,900 --> 01:36:45,720
disclosure movement in Exopolitics I'm

2257
01:36:49,730 --> 01:36:47,910
not familiar with what you're talking

2258
01:36:52,310 --> 01:36:49,740
about the EXO politics I'm not I'm not

2259
01:36:52,610 --> 01:36:52,320
sure that I understand what that refers

2260
01:36:57,320 --> 01:36:52,620
to

2261
01:36:59,590 --> 01:36:57,330
I don't think you do either I get the

2262
01:37:02,600 --> 01:36:59,600
impression here it's basically of

2263
01:37:05,000 --> 01:37:02,610
movement to try to understand or to

2264
01:37:08,120 --> 01:37:05,010
formulate a policy about how to deal

2265
01:37:11,090 --> 01:37:08,130
with et I have a feeling if they already

2266
01:37:12,620 --> 01:37:11,100
know who et is and why they are here so

2267
01:37:18,980 --> 01:37:12,630
it's like having an interplanetary

2268
01:37:21,020 --> 01:37:18,990
embassy or perhaps yeah 2.0 it sounds a

2269
01:37:24,470 --> 01:37:21,030
bit misguided from where you're telling

2270
01:37:26,120 --> 01:37:24,480
me about it and yeah I have to think

2271
01:37:27,860 --> 01:37:26,130
about that one so I don't have an

2272
01:37:30,170 --> 01:37:27,870
immediate reaction to that that's

2273
01:37:33,050 --> 01:37:30,180
something I'm not that familiar with so

2274
01:37:36,110 --> 01:37:33,060
well maybe you're off I remember a very

2275
01:37:41,660 --> 01:37:36,120
interesting exchange that you and Steven

2276
01:37:44,180 --> 01:37:41,670
Greer had back in 94 that's the type of

2277
01:37:48,350 --> 01:37:44,190
thing that kind of drives me nuts in the

2278
01:37:50,120 --> 01:37:48,360
field that Traci because of the fact

2279
01:37:52,220 --> 01:37:50,130
that Greer was here a couple of times on

2280
01:37:55,880 --> 01:37:52,230
the podcast and the second and last

2281
01:37:58,610 --> 01:37:55,890
appearance he was practically yelling at

2282
01:38:01,340 --> 01:37:58,620
us so tell us about this encounter well

2283
01:38:04,370 --> 01:38:01,350
we had a conference up in Creston I was

2284
01:38:07,910 --> 01:38:04,380
sort of an informal conference and there

2285
01:38:10,790 --> 01:38:07,920
were maybe what 20 people or so that

2286
01:38:12,950 --> 01:38:10,800
attended and this guy comes marching in

2287
01:38:15,560 --> 01:38:12,960
to the conference and he's spouting off

2288
01:38:17,510 --> 01:38:15,570
about everything under the Sun like

2289
01:38:21,020 --> 01:38:17,520
again as somebody who knows all the

2290
01:38:23,080 --> 01:38:21,030
answers again and then he started saying

2291
01:38:26,260 --> 01:38:23,090
some things that just really Bob

2292
01:38:30,370 --> 01:38:26,270
he claimed that on his drive to crest

2293
01:38:33,340 --> 01:38:30,380
stone that the aliens were flying above

2294
01:38:37,390 --> 01:38:33,350
his car and they kept men you know

2295
01:38:40,980 --> 01:38:37,400
maneuvering into the sea SETI logo that

2296
01:38:44,470 --> 01:38:40,990
he uses above the car as kind of like a

2297
01:38:47,410 --> 01:38:44,480
an homage to him or a tribute to him or

2298
01:38:49,390 --> 01:38:47,420
whatever and I'm thinking to myself you

2299
01:38:51,310 --> 01:38:49,400
know you talk about self-serving you

2300
01:38:54,550 --> 01:38:51,320
know give me a friggin break it's like

2301
01:38:56,620 --> 01:38:54,560
you know so somebody who comes in and

2302
01:39:00,730 --> 01:38:56,630
makes that claim right off the bat was

2303
01:39:03,250 --> 01:39:00,740
you know it was really already kind of

2304
01:39:08,650 --> 01:39:03,260
on my list and then from there he went

2305
01:39:10,360 --> 01:39:08,660
on to say that the deductions the the

2306
01:39:13,480 --> 01:39:10,370
the negative stuff we got out of

2307
01:39:15,730 --> 01:39:13,490
inductions was just due to our monkey

2308
01:39:18,730 --> 01:39:15,740
brains people's monkey brains its

2309
01:39:20,620 --> 01:39:18,740
expression he kept even because they

2310
01:39:23,380 --> 01:39:20,630
were really here to help us and they're

2311
01:39:26,950 --> 01:39:23,390
really here to save the world and only

2312
01:39:29,860 --> 01:39:26,960
are immature fear factors that are

2313
01:39:35,080 --> 01:39:29,870
making us color these abduction cases

2314
01:39:36,940 --> 01:39:35,090
with negatives and in he he just you

2315
01:39:40,510 --> 01:39:36,950
know wouldn't stop it was like all night

2316
01:39:42,220 --> 01:39:40,520
long it was one see that I really didn't

2317
01:39:45,100 --> 01:39:42,230
want to hear after another after another

2318
01:39:47,140 --> 01:39:45,110
after another and all with the attitude

2319
01:39:48,820 --> 01:39:47,150
of I'm the one that knows the answers

2320
01:39:51,040 --> 01:39:48,830
I'm the only one that knows of the

2321
01:39:53,470 --> 01:39:51,050
answers now I'm going to share some of

2322
01:39:54,850 --> 01:39:53,480
my endless knowledge with the rest of

2323
01:39:58,150 --> 01:39:54,860
you cretins here you know

2324
01:40:00,550 --> 01:39:58,160
so I just really kind of had to

2325
01:40:02,500 --> 01:40:00,560
challenge them and started to you know

2326
01:40:04,780 --> 01:40:02,510
nibble away at some of the stuff he was

2327
01:40:07,780 --> 01:40:04,790
saying you were taking you had taken

2328
01:40:09,640 --> 01:40:07,790
major bites Tracy oh I remember his is

2329
01:40:12,550 --> 01:40:09,650
his comment that he keeps kept repeating

2330
01:40:15,340 --> 01:40:12,560
over and over now this is I forget the

2331
01:40:18,010 --> 01:40:15,350
exact yeah I think was a spring of 94 if

2332
01:40:19,990 --> 01:40:18,020
I'm not mistaken then he was saying 90

2333
01:40:23,170 --> 01:40:20,000
days I guarantee it there will be

2334
01:40:27,150 --> 01:40:23,180
disclosure in 90 days yeah absolutely

2335
01:40:30,610 --> 01:40:27,160
yeah yeah which a bunch of nonsense and

2336
01:40:33,070 --> 01:40:30,620
really again very arrogant and again

2337
01:40:35,169 --> 01:40:33,080
coming forth with this attitude

2338
01:40:37,840 --> 01:40:35,179
I have all the answers so just listen to

2339
01:40:40,180 --> 01:40:37,850
me and maybe some of my genius will rub

2340
01:40:42,760 --> 01:40:40,190
off on you it's like you know I'm pretty

2341
01:40:45,220 --> 01:40:42,770
tolerant the most people and it takes a

2342
01:40:48,939 --> 01:40:45,230
lot to get under my skin but this guy

2343
01:40:51,669 --> 01:40:48,949
was right off the bat he was so he had a

2344
01:40:54,250 --> 01:40:51,679
bunch of sycophants that were following

2345
01:40:55,750 --> 01:40:54,260
him around everywhere like you know and

2346
01:40:58,209 --> 01:40:55,760
I was thinking the emperor has no

2347
01:41:01,390 --> 01:40:58,219
clothes this is really this is really

2348
01:41:03,700 --> 01:41:01,400
not cool at all and then he was when I

2349
01:41:06,220 --> 01:41:03,710
left the room a friend of mine said that

2350
01:41:09,490 --> 01:41:06,230
he went off on a long harangue about how

2351
01:41:11,020 --> 01:41:09,500
I was a well-known CIA agent and that I

2352
01:41:14,020 --> 01:41:11,030
would the position I was taking with

2353
01:41:16,510 --> 01:41:14,030
because of my CIA connections and bla

2354
01:41:21,250 --> 01:41:16,520
bla bla bla which is really one of the

2355
01:41:24,370 --> 01:41:21,260
more boring boring false charges you can

2356
01:41:25,840 --> 01:41:24,380
go into it goes back to the Stone Age

2357
01:41:31,570 --> 01:41:25,850
well maybe they owe you a few paychecks

2358
01:41:33,220 --> 01:41:31,580
at least Hollywood so of course

2359
01:41:35,709 --> 01:41:33,230
sometimes getting the money is difficult

2360
01:41:38,800 --> 01:41:35,719
so you friends over at Langley and say

2361
01:41:40,419 --> 01:41:38,810
hey only a few thousand here guys you

2362
01:41:42,939 --> 01:41:40,429
know bringing myself tonight with all of

2363
01:41:45,370 --> 01:41:42,949
the old Ben's in there you know what was

2364
01:41:47,500 --> 01:41:45,380
actually the second time I had the CIA

2365
01:41:50,979 --> 01:41:47,510
thing the other guy that claimed that I

2366
01:41:52,870 --> 01:41:50,989
was at the CIA John Lear and John Liu

2367
01:41:55,780 --> 01:41:52,880
was telling everyone that would listen

2368
01:41:59,020 --> 01:41:55,790
that I was a really well-known CIA agent

2369
01:42:01,660 --> 01:41:59,030
so I will write up to him and I said so

2370
01:42:04,060 --> 01:42:01,670
John I understand you've added me you've

2371
01:42:08,010 --> 01:42:04,070
revealed my secret to the world I'm a

2372
01:42:10,600 --> 01:42:08,020
CIA agent I'm just curious how did you

2373
01:42:11,740 --> 01:42:10,610
how did you come to that conclusion how

2374
01:42:15,280 --> 01:42:11,750
did you blow my cover

2375
01:42:18,520 --> 01:42:15,290
and he said well your friends would do

2376
01:42:20,320 --> 01:42:18,530
more aren't you and I said yeah I mean

2377
01:42:21,550 --> 01:42:20,330
well that's it you know if you're

2378
01:42:24,040 --> 01:42:21,560
friends with Bill Moore you're in the

2379
01:42:26,770 --> 01:42:24,050
CIA asset okay well thanks for sharing

2380
01:42:30,580 --> 01:42:26,780
that those pearls of wisdom with me so

2381
01:42:32,919 --> 01:42:30,590
you know you come across this kind of

2382
01:42:34,870 --> 01:42:32,929
stuff in this field and that's when I

2383
01:42:37,030 --> 01:42:34,880
feel like quitting like I feel like I

2384
01:42:38,950 --> 01:42:37,040
don't ever want to attend another

2385
01:42:41,680 --> 01:42:38,960
convention again because it's just such

2386
01:42:44,890 --> 01:42:41,690
a big waste of time and there's so many

2387
01:42:46,990 --> 01:42:44,900
people who seem to be so anxious

2388
01:42:50,050 --> 01:42:47,000
to say so much and have really nothing

2389
01:42:53,020 --> 01:42:50,060
to say and that's the other thing is you

2390
01:42:55,240 --> 01:42:53,030
really kind of you know you kind of have

2391
01:42:57,640 --> 01:42:55,250
to be careful with what you take in and

2392
01:43:00,040 --> 01:42:57,650
what what this passed on to you as fact

2393
01:43:03,130 --> 01:43:00,050
you know so it just goes to show you

2394
01:43:04,930 --> 01:43:03,140
this to people you know going around

2395
01:43:07,630 --> 01:43:04,940
telling anyone that will listen that I'm

2396
01:43:10,689 --> 01:43:07,640
in the CIA I hate to break it to you

2397
01:43:11,080 --> 01:43:10,699
guys but I'm not in the CIA so there you

2398
01:43:13,090 --> 01:43:11,090
go

2399
01:43:15,250 --> 01:43:13,100
and if you were what were you supposed

2400
01:43:17,260 --> 01:43:15,260
to be doing making a few science fiction

2401
01:43:23,560 --> 01:43:17,270
movies that's going to persuade the

2402
01:43:25,360 --> 01:43:23,570
public of what I mean isn't you know

2403
01:43:28,450 --> 01:43:25,370
seriously speaking I know you work very

2404
01:43:29,919 --> 01:43:28,460
hard on some excellent projects but in

2405
01:43:32,649 --> 01:43:29,929
the scheme of things television is

2406
01:43:33,310 --> 01:43:32,659
disposable kind of yeah that's that's

2407
01:43:39,250 --> 01:43:33,320
very true

2408
01:43:40,810 --> 01:43:39,260
yeah you make it then you always if

2409
01:43:43,000 --> 01:43:40,820
you're working in television or movies

2410
01:43:45,430 --> 01:43:43,010
you're always trying to do something

2411
01:43:47,700 --> 01:43:45,440
with significance you know you're trying

2412
01:43:50,320 --> 01:43:47,710
to be something that's going to last

2413
01:43:53,050 --> 01:43:50,330
it's going to make people think it's

2414
01:43:55,450 --> 01:43:53,060
gonna affect people or make them laugh

2415
01:43:58,030 --> 01:43:55,460
or cry or whatever so that is one of the

2416
01:43:59,800 --> 01:43:58,040
goals of what you're doing but it

2417
01:44:02,979 --> 01:43:59,810
doesn't always work out that way well

2418
01:44:07,120 --> 01:44:02,989
I'm kind of a television chunky to some

2419
01:44:08,950 --> 01:44:07,130
degree and my wife is as well and we get

2420
01:44:11,260 --> 01:44:08,960
to watch a lot of the pop-culture shows

2421
01:44:13,300 --> 01:44:11,270
the one thing I do notice is the

2422
01:44:15,910 --> 01:44:13,310
production values of TV today slicker

2423
01:44:18,220 --> 01:44:15,920
than they used to be you know quality of

2424
01:44:20,709 --> 01:44:18,230
acting quality of performers a lot of

2425
01:44:23,680 --> 01:44:20,719
people who are movie actors decide to

2426
01:44:25,510 --> 01:44:23,690
try it in television and it gets to be

2427
01:44:28,510 --> 01:44:25,520
quite interesting quite entertaining

2428
01:44:31,090 --> 01:44:28,520
Tracy Torme writer producer joining us

2429
01:44:36,810 --> 01:44:31,100
I'm Jean Steinberg our co-host is Chris

2430
01:44:42,490 --> 01:44:39,810
[Music]

2431
01:44:44,770 --> 01:44:42,500
hi this is Ted Anderson if you'd like to

2432
01:44:47,140 --> 01:44:44,780
listen to GCN programs on the go I have

2433
01:44:49,690 --> 01:44:47,150
great news gzn has created a Droid and

2434
01:44:51,790 --> 01:44:49,700
iPhone application and it's free just as

2435
01:44:53,800 --> 01:44:51,800
easy as going to GC and live.com click

2436
01:44:55,090 --> 01:44:53,810
on the banner and download before you

2437
01:44:57,550 --> 01:44:55,100
know it you'll be listening to your

2438
01:44:59,320 --> 01:44:57,560
favorite hard-hitting GCN shows live or

2439
01:45:02,200 --> 01:44:59,330
on demand right on your Droid or iPhone

2440
01:45:04,180 --> 01:45:02,210
24/7 and on the go so download the Droid

2441
01:45:06,310 --> 01:45:04,190
and iphone app free by clicking on the

2442
01:45:08,470 --> 01:45:06,320
banner at GC and live.com thanks again

2443
01:45:10,990 --> 01:45:08,480
for listening to GC and live.com again

2444
01:45:11,470 --> 01:45:11,000
that's juicy and live.com hi this is Ted

2445
01:45:12,700 --> 01:45:11,480
Anderson

2446
01:45:14,530 --> 01:45:12,710
have you ever wondered why banks

2447
01:45:16,270 --> 01:45:14,540
stockbrokers investment advisors won't

2448
01:45:18,640 --> 01:45:16,280
talk about gold IRAs they've been

2449
01:45:20,350 --> 01:45:18,650
available since 1986 yet the financial

2450
01:45:22,060 --> 01:45:20,360
industry won't recognize the value of

2451
01:45:23,980 --> 01:45:22,070
gold for your retirement gold has

2452
01:45:25,900 --> 01:45:23,990
outperformed paper investments yet no

2453
01:45:38,580 --> 01:45:25,910
word about IRAs if you would like to

2454
01:45:54,760 --> 01:45:40,370
806-853-9949

2455
01:45:58,770 --> 01:45:56,359
[Music]

2456
01:46:01,939 --> 01:45:58,780
we are going to have a test one day to

2457
01:46:05,209 --> 01:46:01,949
see how low Chris can go with his voice

2458
01:46:12,020 --> 01:46:07,770
that's right I see do the limbo how low

2459
01:46:15,839 --> 01:46:12,030
can go Tracy to amaze our guests were

2460
01:46:19,470 --> 01:46:15,849
basically having fun with Chris O'Brien

2461
01:46:23,160 --> 01:46:19,480
our co-host I never have fun it's like

2462
01:46:25,739 --> 01:46:23,170
the remark that Q says to James Bond I

2463
01:46:28,140 --> 01:46:25,749
never joke double-oh-seven I'm gene

2464
01:46:29,910 --> 01:46:28,150
Steinberg you're in the para cast we're

2465
01:46:32,009 --> 01:46:29,920
talking about pop culture but also the

2466
01:46:33,779 --> 01:46:32,019
influence of Hollywood on the media and

2467
01:46:35,729 --> 01:46:33,789
I guess one of the overarching

2468
01:46:37,919 --> 01:46:35,739
conspiracy theories has it that

2469
01:46:40,620 --> 01:46:37,929
Hollywood is one of the mechanisms to

2470
01:46:42,270 --> 01:46:40,630
engage disclosure so you see things

2471
01:46:44,759 --> 01:46:42,280
happening in Hollywood films and

2472
01:46:47,850 --> 01:46:44,769
suddenly that is supposed to represent

2473
01:46:51,479 --> 01:46:47,860
our potential reality what do you think

2474
01:46:53,669 --> 01:46:51,489
are you trying that way it's been going

2475
01:46:55,589 --> 01:46:53,679
around for a long time that you know the

2476
01:46:58,560 --> 01:46:55,599
government is ready to do full

2477
01:47:01,680 --> 01:46:58,570
disclosure and they're using people like

2478
01:47:04,680 --> 01:47:01,690
Spielberg and others to get the public

2479
01:47:07,500 --> 01:47:04,690
ready to accept the awful truth or

2480
01:47:09,359 --> 01:47:07,510
whatever you know that's been going

2481
01:47:12,569 --> 01:47:09,369
around for so long I mean that's

2482
01:47:15,810 --> 01:47:12,579
something Linda Howe was spouting off to

2483
01:47:18,859 --> 01:47:15,820
me about 25 years ago that you know any

2484
01:47:22,140 --> 01:47:18,869
day now the big disclosure is coming and

2485
01:47:25,890 --> 01:47:22,150
I was skeptical over then and I'm

2486
01:47:29,160 --> 01:47:25,900
skeptical of it now because if my theory

2487
01:47:30,959 --> 01:47:29,170
is right then there is no single big

2488
01:47:35,250 --> 01:47:30,969
disclosure there's just this general

2489
01:47:37,830 --> 01:47:35,260
truth that has been suppressed and I

2490
01:47:40,589 --> 01:47:37,840
don't really see unfortunately I'm sorry

2491
01:47:43,950 --> 01:47:40,599
to say this but I don't really see that

2492
01:47:45,390 --> 01:47:43,960
momentum heading toward telling everyone

2493
01:47:47,729 --> 01:47:45,400
the truth

2494
01:47:50,609 --> 01:47:47,739
I see the opposite I see that they

2495
01:47:54,209 --> 01:47:50,619
they're just as clamped down on whatever

2496
01:47:57,629 --> 01:47:54,219
it is as they've ever been so I'm less

2497
01:47:59,160 --> 01:47:57,639
and less optimistic that you know in my

2498
01:48:00,600 --> 01:47:59,170
lifetime or whatever

2499
01:48:02,100 --> 01:48:00,610
we're gonna get to the totally to the

2500
01:48:03,959 --> 01:48:02,110
bottom of this unfortunately I would

2501
01:48:06,750 --> 01:48:03,969
have thought 20 years ago that we were

2502
01:48:11,400 --> 01:48:06,760
pretty close but I don't think we're any

2503
01:48:12,810 --> 01:48:11,410
closer now so I think that it's anybody

2504
01:48:15,330 --> 01:48:12,820
that really wants to try to get to the

2505
01:48:17,760 --> 01:48:15,340
bottom of the UFO mystery has to be very

2506
01:48:21,810 --> 01:48:17,770
diligent and patience and take their

2507
01:48:24,209 --> 01:48:21,820
time and maybe be a little crazy and

2508
01:48:25,800 --> 01:48:24,219
maybe have airs so they could spread

2509
01:48:28,050 --> 01:48:25,810
their wisdom and have it carry through

2510
01:48:29,970 --> 01:48:28,060
to the next generation unfortunately

2511
01:48:31,979 --> 01:48:29,980
there was no next generation I guess for

2512
01:48:34,410 --> 01:48:31,989
major Donald Kehoe he was telling us

2513
01:48:36,680 --> 01:48:34,420
back in the 50s it was a silenced group

2514
01:48:39,090 --> 01:48:36,690
in the book flying saucer conspiracy the

2515
01:48:41,400 --> 01:48:39,100
government would eventually realize the

2516
01:48:44,400 --> 01:48:41,410
wisdom of telling us each he was here

2517
01:48:47,370 --> 01:48:44,410
and all his successors and assigns and

2518
01:48:48,930 --> 01:48:47,380
everyone else said the same thing and we

2519
01:48:50,340 --> 01:48:48,940
don't see it happening but then we have

2520
01:48:51,419 --> 01:48:50,350
people like Jacque fillet say it's you

2521
01:48:54,689 --> 01:48:51,429
know it's a whole lot more complicated

2522
01:48:58,530 --> 01:48:54,699
because we've had UFOs from the dawn of

2523
01:49:00,120 --> 01:48:58,540
our history UFOs in antiquity like his

2524
01:49:02,880 --> 01:49:00,130
new book wonders in the sky with Chris

2525
01:49:05,910 --> 01:49:02,890
avec as co-author so looking at it that

2526
01:49:08,810 --> 01:49:05,920
way if UFOs have been so ubiquitous for

2527
01:49:11,400 --> 01:49:08,820
so long you know is there a secret any

2528
01:49:14,729 --> 01:49:11,410
government can unearth that's a great

2529
01:49:17,669 --> 01:49:14,739
question you know I mean I don't really

2530
01:49:19,800 --> 01:49:17,679
know the answer to that don't I'm not

2531
01:49:22,320 --> 01:49:19,810
sure that anyone does to be honest with

2532
01:49:26,750 --> 01:49:22,330
you no I think they know a lot more

2533
01:49:30,750 --> 01:49:29,160
really great to know what they know I

2534
01:49:35,010 --> 01:49:30,760
mean to really really know what they

2535
01:49:37,160 --> 01:49:35,020
know but recently there was a thing on

2536
01:49:41,490 --> 01:49:37,170
I'm trying to remember what it was on TV

2537
01:49:45,270 --> 01:49:41,500
talking about the plans for what said he

2538
01:49:47,160 --> 01:49:45,280
will do if they ever get a real signal

2539
01:49:49,770 --> 01:49:47,170
and what was interesting and disturbing

2540
01:49:52,229 --> 01:49:49,780
to me was there are all kinds of layers

2541
01:49:54,930 --> 01:49:52,239
of secrecy that were coming in of you

2542
01:49:57,240 --> 01:49:54,940
know if they did get a legitimate signal

2543
01:49:59,070 --> 01:49:57,250
and they knew legitimate that only

2544
01:50:00,959 --> 01:49:59,080
certain people in the know would be

2545
01:50:02,970 --> 01:50:00,969
allowed to know about it at first for

2546
01:50:06,570 --> 01:50:02,980
quite a while they would keep the

2547
01:50:09,090 --> 01:50:06,580
information from the public and etc and

2548
01:50:12,340 --> 01:50:09,100
that's pretty you know it's pretty

2549
01:50:14,110 --> 01:50:12,350
telling in a lot of ways you

2550
01:50:16,570 --> 01:50:14,120
can't really be sure that that hasn't

2551
01:50:18,490 --> 01:50:16,580
happened you can't really know a hundred

2552
01:50:20,770 --> 01:50:18,500
percent that that has map I personally

2553
01:50:23,740 --> 01:50:20,780
don't take it out but that raises a

2554
01:50:26,880 --> 01:50:23,750
bigger question Traci which is if SETI

2555
01:50:32,440 --> 01:50:26,890
gets the signals they can't tell you

2556
01:50:34,480 --> 01:50:32,450
exactly yeah exactly and what you would

2557
01:50:36,250 --> 01:50:34,490
probably do to hide that information is

2558
01:50:39,880 --> 01:50:36,260
to continue looking or pertaining

2559
01:50:43,090 --> 01:50:39,890
looking alright yeah that makes total

2560
01:50:45,940 --> 01:50:43,100
sense yes first time I've made total

2561
01:50:48,370 --> 01:50:45,950
sense this week you know I keep in mind

2562
01:50:49,990 --> 01:50:48,380
but people say you know I give it up man

2563
01:50:54,160 --> 01:50:50,000
it's not going to happen is there say no

2564
01:50:56,530 --> 01:50:54,170
you get there possibility that they have

2565
01:50:58,960 --> 01:50:56,540
you know come up with something that

2566
01:51:00,040 --> 01:50:58,970
would be really eye-opening and that

2567
01:51:03,580 --> 01:51:00,050
they're not sharing it with the world

2568
01:51:06,160 --> 01:51:03,590
but it gives them the right basically to

2569
01:51:08,350 --> 01:51:06,170
sit on information like that it's kind

2570
01:51:10,900 --> 01:51:08,360
of disturbing it's very totalitarian in

2571
01:51:12,250 --> 01:51:10,910
a way you know yeah yeah I agree and I

2572
01:51:15,240 --> 01:51:12,260
think a lot of the information that's

2573
01:51:17,620 --> 01:51:15,250
out there that's being held

2574
01:51:20,410 --> 01:51:17,630
clandestinely or secretly is is probably

2575
01:51:21,580 --> 01:51:20,420
in the private sector because you don't

2576
01:51:24,280 --> 01:51:21,590
you know the public doesn't have

2577
01:51:27,940 --> 01:51:24,290
recourse we can't file Freedom of

2578
01:51:33,730 --> 01:51:27,950
Information Act requests to Northrup or

2579
01:51:35,560 --> 01:51:33,740
Boeing or Lockheed possibility that

2580
01:51:38,070 --> 01:51:35,570
dollars about something else in

2581
01:51:41,230 --> 01:51:38,080
involving our discussion of abductions

2582
01:51:43,870 --> 01:51:41,240
they have gotten around in general

2583
01:51:48,130 --> 01:51:43,880
amongst ufologists for people interested

2584
01:51:50,650 --> 01:51:48,140
in this the true story of Barney Hill

2585
01:51:53,200 --> 01:51:50,660
and what he went through during his

2586
01:51:55,240 --> 01:51:53,210
abduction I mean is that story I know

2587
01:51:58,630 --> 01:51:55,250
when it was first told to me it was sort

2588
01:52:01,780 --> 01:51:58,640
of clandestine it was sort of one to be

2589
01:52:05,710 --> 01:52:01,790
kept quiet but I wondered if it's if

2590
01:52:08,530 --> 01:52:05,720
it's gotten around and I want to ask you

2591
01:52:09,970 --> 01:52:08,540
guys that well tell us the story that

2592
01:52:13,150 --> 01:52:09,980
we're not hearing maybe we can benda

2593
01:52:16,690 --> 01:52:13,160
tell him that Hopkins was first finding

2594
01:52:18,700 --> 01:52:16,700
his patterns okay he was very upset with

2595
01:52:19,810 --> 01:52:18,710
the sexual angle of it because he

2596
01:52:22,060 --> 01:52:19,820
thought people were going to think he

2597
01:52:24,240 --> 01:52:22,070
was completely nuts and he was not

2598
01:52:25,980 --> 01:52:24,250
comfortable about it but

2599
01:52:27,990 --> 01:52:25,990
said that in everybody seems they seem

2600
01:52:31,050 --> 01:52:28,000
to be taking sperm and OVA from

2601
01:52:32,730 --> 01:52:31,060
everybody and none of the things that

2602
01:52:35,040 --> 01:52:32,740
was no it was nothing like that had ever

2603
01:52:38,160 --> 01:52:35,050
happened to Betty and Barney or to Betty

2604
01:52:39,660 --> 01:52:38,170
Barney Hill and then it just recently

2605
01:52:42,150 --> 01:52:39,670
came out when they were going through

2606
01:52:45,720 --> 01:52:42,160
some of the files of dr. Benjamin Simon

2607
01:52:48,390 --> 01:52:45,730
that there was one key thing that was

2608
01:52:51,510 --> 01:52:48,400
suppressed from the book and suppressed

2609
01:52:53,580 --> 01:52:51,520
from the transcripts because Barney Hill

2610
01:52:56,930 --> 01:52:53,590
was a religious man and this was just

2611
01:53:00,000 --> 01:52:56,940
too difficult for him and he describes

2612
01:53:03,560 --> 01:53:00,010
them you know artificially ejaculating

2613
01:53:05,850 --> 01:53:03,570
him and taking his sperm and how

2614
01:53:08,580 --> 01:53:05,860
humiliating it was for him and how

2615
01:53:11,520 --> 01:53:08,590
disturbing it was remember the invasion

2616
01:53:13,110 --> 01:53:11,530
of his privacy it was but I thought wow

2617
01:53:16,920 --> 01:53:13,120
you know for people who think that

2618
01:53:19,530 --> 01:53:16,930
abductions are fantasy based and that

2619
01:53:22,220 --> 01:53:19,540
they're not real what are the odds that

2620
01:53:25,290 --> 01:53:22,230
Hopkins finds that detail is

2621
01:53:26,960 --> 01:53:25,300
uncomfortable with it and doesn't know

2622
01:53:30,450 --> 01:53:26,970
that there's any connection whatsoever

2623
01:53:32,820 --> 01:53:30,460
to Barney Hill but Barney Hill went

2624
01:53:36,210 --> 01:53:32,830
through the same thing back in the early

2625
01:53:39,690 --> 01:53:36,220
60s and to me it's details like that

2626
01:53:41,460 --> 01:53:39,700
that assure me that there's some reality

2627
01:53:44,310 --> 01:53:41,470
to this it's just too big of a

2628
01:53:45,960 --> 01:53:44,320
coincidence again too off the wall so

2629
01:53:48,840 --> 01:53:45,970
when I first heard that I thought that

2630
01:53:51,060 --> 01:53:48,850
was really fascinating that that detail

2631
01:53:53,370 --> 01:53:51,070
had been suppressed did they suppress it

2632
01:53:55,830 --> 01:53:53,380
possibly because of the fact that it

2633
01:53:57,900 --> 01:53:55,840
would just be too sensational well I was

2634
01:54:00,450 --> 01:53:57,910
told he was suppressed strictly because

2635
01:54:02,370 --> 01:54:00,460
he was so embarrassed by it he insisted

2636
01:54:04,620 --> 01:54:02,380
if you're gonna write a book about us

2637
01:54:06,660 --> 01:54:04,630
you got to leave that out and that that

2638
01:54:09,450 --> 01:54:06,670
was left out until long after he died

2639
01:54:11,550 --> 01:54:09,460
and that's when Benjamin Simon died and

2640
01:54:13,980 --> 01:54:11,560
that's when this sort of fact was

2641
01:54:17,160 --> 01:54:13,990
discovered but if that's the truth if

2642
01:54:19,340 --> 01:54:17,170
that's the way it came down that's again

2643
01:54:22,260 --> 01:54:19,350
that's to me that's quite a coincidence

2644
01:54:25,350 --> 01:54:22,270
if this is all a bunch of nonsense

2645
01:54:27,210 --> 01:54:25,360
it really has a reality to it I think

2646
01:54:27,799 --> 01:54:27,220
that's really important speaking of

2647
01:54:29,540 --> 01:54:27,809
errors of

2648
01:54:31,819 --> 01:54:29,550
I guess some of the things we pick up

2649
01:54:34,909 --> 01:54:31,829
from people like Jacques filet or John

2650
01:54:38,059 --> 01:54:34,919
keel is that there's a cultural aspect

2651
01:54:40,969 --> 01:54:38,069
that what we see in UFOs mirrors our

2652
01:54:43,790 --> 01:54:40,979
cultural expectations so maybe we're not

2653
01:54:49,669 --> 01:54:43,800
perceiving the entire reality you know

2654
01:54:52,219 --> 01:54:49,679
it's I sure do yeah it's very possible

2655
01:54:54,979 --> 01:54:52,229
it certainly seems like there is a

2656
01:54:58,159 --> 01:54:54,989
reflective quality to what we get from

2657
01:55:00,639 --> 01:54:58,169
the UFO incidents like they're in some

2658
01:55:03,439 --> 01:55:00,649
ways they're holding up a mirror to us

2659
01:55:07,369 --> 01:55:03,449
and that they are responding to things

2660
01:55:08,719 --> 01:55:07,379
that we do you know sociologically so I

2661
01:55:11,209 --> 01:55:08,729
think that's very possible

2662
01:55:13,270 --> 01:55:11,219
we have other possibilities to discuss a

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reminder if you want to post messages

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about various topics interest you we

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have forum podcast calm for America's

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comm sign up and join in on the fun

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Tracy Torme is our guest Chris O'Brien

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is the co-host I'm gene Steinberg you're

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in the pure cast

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buy gold if you believed that the

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not what's happening

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you might even pass on gold if the

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are the gcn

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we want to hear from you if you have a

2783
02:00:00,830 --> 01:59:57,300
comment or question about the pair cast

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02:00:04,520 --> 02:00:00,840
send it to news at the para cast calm

2785
02:00:06,200 --> 02:00:04,530
that's news at the para cast calm and

2786
02:00:08,930 --> 02:00:06,210
don't forget to visit our famous pair

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02:00:11,540 --> 02:00:08,940
cast community forums at forum dot the

2788
02:00:17,840 --> 02:00:11,550
para cast comm get in on all the action

2789
02:00:20,540 --> 02:00:17,850
at forum dot the para cast calm chris is

2790
02:00:29,780 --> 02:00:20,550
trying real hard pretty well yeah how

2791
02:00:33,370 --> 02:00:29,790
about you want to try Tracy that's right

2792
02:00:36,710 --> 02:00:33,380
he's my trio were the three musketeers

2793
02:00:36,920 --> 02:00:36,720
to insane you know we have insane insane

2794
02:00:42,320 --> 02:00:36,930
ur

2795
02:00:44,300 --> 02:00:42,330
Jean Steinberg Chris O'Brien's the

2796
02:00:46,970 --> 02:00:44,310
co-host ER in the para cast we're

2797
02:00:49,430 --> 02:00:46,980
exploring the more unusual aspects of

2798
02:00:53,180 --> 02:00:49,440
UFOs that the phenomenon mirrors our

2799
02:00:56,000 --> 02:00:53,190
expectations so we see gods in ancient

2800
02:00:59,180 --> 02:00:56,010
times we see leprechauns and all other

2801
02:01:02,150 --> 02:00:59,190
creatures in the ages vampires

2802
02:01:04,820 --> 02:01:02,160
werewolves don't forget succubus may be

2803
02:01:09,860 --> 02:01:04,830
the modern succubus is like an alien

2804
02:01:12,830 --> 02:01:09,870
or something goes into the lake

2805
02:01:15,830 --> 02:01:12,840
territory oh yeah I mean he definitely

2806
02:01:19,400 --> 02:01:15,840
has always felt that there was a

2807
02:01:23,360 --> 02:01:19,410
sociological aspect to this end that it

2808
02:01:25,960 --> 02:01:23,370
mirrors our society and passports of

2809
02:01:29,480 --> 02:01:25,970
Magana and book I remember is that

2810
02:01:31,340 --> 02:01:29,490
details all the distillery like you know

2811
02:01:34,940 --> 02:01:31,350
encounters that he thinks we're now

2812
02:01:36,740 --> 02:01:34,950
connected with UFOs and and spoil you

2813
02:01:39,650 --> 02:01:36,750
know it's it's part of what keeps it

2814
02:01:43,280 --> 02:01:39,660
interesting I can't possibly say that I

2815
02:01:45,260 --> 02:01:43,290
know that to be true but is it possible

2816
02:01:48,110 --> 02:01:45,270
it definitely is possible you know so

2817
02:01:49,670 --> 02:01:48,120
it's interesting to delve into stuff

2818
02:01:52,460 --> 02:01:49,680
like that it's like with the ancient

2819
02:01:54,080 --> 02:01:52,470
astronauts stuff when people ever asked

2820
02:01:56,630 --> 02:01:54,090
me of what I think of ancient astronaut

2821
02:01:59,720 --> 02:01:56,640
stuff I say you know I'm a complete

2822
02:02:01,550 --> 02:01:59,730
diagnostic on it I just think it could

2823
02:02:02,250 --> 02:02:01,560
have happened it makes a certain amount

2824
02:02:04,859 --> 02:02:02,260
of sense

2825
02:02:08,129 --> 02:02:04,869
but we're dealing with things from such

2826
02:02:09,990 --> 02:02:08,139
a long time ago that's gone through such

2827
02:02:12,569 --> 02:02:10,000
a game with telephone over the course of

2828
02:02:15,359 --> 02:02:12,579
the years you know that I don't know I

2829
02:02:17,970 --> 02:02:15,369
just just keep an open mind to it and

2830
02:02:19,740 --> 02:02:17,980
think it's possible but can't really say

2831
02:02:23,339 --> 02:02:19,750
that I'm a believer in it so to speak

2832
02:02:26,490 --> 02:02:23,349
okay yeah and having said that we just

2833
02:02:29,430 --> 02:02:26,500
lost one of the more celebrated figures

2834
02:02:32,310 --> 02:02:29,440
in the ancient astronaut realm in terms

2835
02:02:34,140 --> 02:02:32,320
of how it might involve the you know the

2836
02:02:36,629 --> 02:02:34,150
modern UFO and that is course zecharia

2837
02:02:39,299 --> 02:02:36,639
sitchin who just died recently and right

2838
02:02:42,450 --> 02:02:39,309
and Sitchin has taken quite a bit of NOx

2839
02:02:45,899 --> 02:02:42,460
as has Erich von däniken over the years

2840
02:02:46,709 --> 02:02:45,909
but I find that the subject has legs the

2841
02:02:49,080 --> 02:02:46,719
History Channel

2842
02:02:51,149 --> 02:02:49,090
two years ago did a special called

2843
02:02:53,040 --> 02:02:51,159
ancient aliens which was the

2844
02:02:54,629 --> 02:02:53,050
highest-rated show ever in the history

2845
02:02:57,479 --> 02:02:54,639
of The History Channel so they went

2846
02:03:00,209 --> 02:02:57,489
ahead and signed a season of it they did

2847
02:03:02,069 --> 02:03:00,219
five to our episodes which were

2848
02:03:04,160 --> 02:03:02,079
immensely popular they've gone into a

2849
02:03:08,160 --> 02:03:04,170
second season there is a tremendous

2850
02:03:10,890 --> 02:03:08,170
audience for this line of thinking there

2851
02:03:12,689 --> 02:03:10,900
is a lot of speculation out there that

2852
02:03:15,180 --> 02:03:12,699
that we may be onto something with this

2853
02:03:17,700 --> 02:03:15,190
line of thinking I kind of doubt it

2854
02:03:19,799 --> 02:03:17,710
myself personally I think if something

2855
02:03:22,109 --> 02:03:19,809
from out there coming immense distances

2856
02:03:23,700 --> 02:03:22,119
would show up I think it would be a big

2857
02:03:26,759 --> 02:03:23,710
deal would be more of like a childhoods

2858
02:03:30,000 --> 02:03:26,769
end scenario or an Independence Day

2859
02:03:32,580 --> 02:03:30,010
large ships hovering over cities that

2860
02:03:35,339 --> 02:03:32,590
sort of thing it just doesn't make sense

2861
02:03:37,890 --> 02:03:35,349
that you have such a clandestine sort of

2862
02:03:39,390 --> 02:03:37,900
subterfuge going on if it was something

2863
02:03:40,709 --> 02:03:39,400
that was coming many light-years away

2864
02:03:43,259 --> 02:03:40,719
there's just something that just doesn't

2865
02:03:45,209 --> 02:03:43,269
add up with that but the whole ancient

2866
02:03:47,490 --> 02:03:45,219
astronaut scenario does have a lot of

2867
02:03:49,709 --> 02:03:47,500
legs and you know I think it's it's

2868
02:03:52,259 --> 02:03:49,719
we're gonna see more and more I think

2869
02:03:53,609 --> 02:03:52,269
entertainment geared for that line of

2870
02:03:55,620 --> 02:03:53,619
thinking because there is such a big

2871
02:03:57,149 --> 02:03:55,630
audience port what do you think about

2872
02:03:58,919 --> 02:03:57,159
that you know shows I've seen the show

2873
02:04:00,990 --> 02:03:58,929
you mentioned yeah I've been watching

2874
02:04:02,899 --> 02:04:01,000
this yeah it's it's definitely an

2875
02:04:06,629 --> 02:04:02,909
endlessly fascinating it's a really

2876
02:04:08,669 --> 02:04:06,639
interesting area and makes a certain

2877
02:04:11,220 --> 02:04:08,679
amount of sense obviously when you look

2878
02:04:14,100 --> 02:04:11,230
at our past history and and the idea

2879
02:04:15,109 --> 02:04:14,110
that we were influenced way back when I

2880
02:04:17,810 --> 02:04:15,119
just

2881
02:04:19,759 --> 02:04:17,820
no I really don't know I'm 50/50 on it

2882
02:04:24,409 --> 02:04:19,769
you know and they found the daughters of

2883
02:04:26,810 --> 02:04:24,419
man fair in a biblical sense you know

2884
02:04:28,189 --> 02:04:26,820
maybe our progeny of aliens I keep

2885
02:04:30,229 --> 02:04:28,199
telling people hey what do you mean do I

2886
02:04:32,149 --> 02:04:30,239
believe in aliens we're the aliens

2887
02:04:37,699 --> 02:04:32,159
they're probably more terrestrial than

2888
02:04:40,040 --> 02:04:37,709
we are to be around a lot so yeah except

2889
02:04:42,830 --> 02:04:40,050
day we were seeded by microbes from

2890
02:04:44,989 --> 02:04:42,840
meteorites from Mars that was like the

2891
02:04:48,919 --> 02:04:44,999
villa Boas case you know where she she

2892
02:04:50,540 --> 02:04:48,929
grunted like an animal so maybe the

2893
02:04:54,350 --> 02:04:50,550
reverse is true we found the daughters

2894
02:04:56,209 --> 02:04:54,360
of aliens fair because I like those nice

2895
02:04:58,369 --> 02:04:56,219
women you know there's something about

2896
02:05:01,159 --> 02:04:58,379
them I always think it's sometimes my

2897
02:05:06,949 --> 02:05:01,169
wife's logic is from another planet a

2898
02:05:09,469 --> 02:05:06,959
planet yeah okay well that explains all

2899
02:05:11,270 --> 02:05:09,479
sorts of things and I really won't enter

2900
02:05:15,379 --> 02:05:11,280
into that let's enter into some more of

2901
02:05:18,139 --> 02:05:15,389
the various permutations about the UFO

2902
02:05:21,139 --> 02:05:18,149
mystery and one of of course is shaping

2903
02:05:23,149 --> 02:05:21,149
public opinion and as I was talking here

2904
02:05:25,429 --> 02:05:23,159
I was looking over an article online I

2905
02:05:29,000 --> 02:05:25,439
look online just to kind of get a sense

2906
02:05:31,040 --> 02:05:29,010
of what's going on but also because it's

2907
02:05:33,529 --> 02:05:31,050
helps me with the research and there's

2908
02:05:38,239 --> 02:05:33,539
an article published this week in a

2909
02:05:40,489 --> 02:05:38,249
newspaper in Utica New York and the

2910
02:05:43,520 --> 02:05:40,499
first sentence you don't hear much about

2911
02:05:45,020 --> 02:05:43,530
UFO sightings nowadays at least not like

2912
02:05:47,869 --> 02:05:45,030
during the heyday of a flying saucer

2913
02:05:50,479 --> 02:05:47,879
scare in the 1950s and the height of

2914
02:05:53,479 --> 02:05:50,489
televisions of the x-files in the 1990s

2915
02:05:56,060 --> 02:05:53,489
do you perceive then Tracy Torme that

2916
02:05:59,199 --> 02:05:56,070
maybe the UFOs have largely left us

2917
02:06:03,049 --> 02:05:59,209
that's a very very interesting question

2918
02:06:03,619 --> 02:06:03,059
because you know Carl Froch you guys

2919
02:06:06,949 --> 02:06:03,629
know him

2920
02:06:12,679 --> 02:06:06,959
we know of him yes yeah he had a theory

2921
02:06:14,209 --> 02:06:12,689
a while ago that they had left he was

2922
02:06:17,089 --> 02:06:14,219
going around with the theory it said

2923
02:06:19,429 --> 02:06:17,099
something was here they were here

2924
02:06:22,580 --> 02:06:19,439
they've gone wherever it was they've

2925
02:06:25,159 --> 02:06:22,590
come from they've gone back to it and

2926
02:06:27,410 --> 02:06:25,169
it's why we're having a decrease in

2927
02:06:29,419 --> 02:06:27,420
number of sightings and etc

2928
02:06:31,669 --> 02:06:29,429
and I thought wow that's interesting I

2929
02:06:34,790 --> 02:06:31,679
mean that sort of opened the whole can

2930
02:06:36,799 --> 02:06:34,800
of worms as to whether that's true or

2931
02:06:38,299 --> 02:06:36,809
not and I don't know if that fully

2932
02:06:39,950 --> 02:06:38,309
answers your question you might want to

2933
02:06:41,660 --> 02:06:39,960
rephrase it to me because I might have

2934
02:06:44,270 --> 02:06:41,670
gotten a little off track on it but well

2935
02:06:45,890 --> 02:06:44,280
the key being then if UFOs have left us

2936
02:06:48,919 --> 02:06:45,900
how do you explain the sightings are

2937
02:06:51,470 --> 02:06:48,929
still going on yeah it's it's it's

2938
02:06:53,870 --> 02:06:51,480
usually in this field you're not gonna

2939
02:06:56,839 --> 02:06:53,880
find one answer that sort of cookie

2940
02:06:59,540 --> 02:06:56,849
cutter answers everything so the answer

2941
02:07:02,450 --> 02:06:59,550
is they've gone you know general

2942
02:07:04,339 --> 02:07:02,460
generally I would generally be somewhat

2943
02:07:07,459 --> 02:07:04,349
skeptical of that because there's just

2944
02:07:09,140 --> 02:07:07,469
so much so many permutations to the

2945
02:07:11,180 --> 02:07:09,150
sightings and the record of sightings

2946
02:07:14,899 --> 02:07:11,190
all around the world and can you really

2947
02:07:16,339 --> 02:07:14,909
say that they've really gone I mean can

2948
02:07:17,390 --> 02:07:16,349
you really make that statement and be

2949
02:07:20,870 --> 02:07:17,400
sure of it

2950
02:07:23,439 --> 02:07:20,880
no of course not but it's an interesting

2951
02:07:26,029 --> 02:07:23,449
theory it's it's it's sort of a linear

2952
02:07:28,129 --> 02:07:26,039
theory that goes in a straight line and

2953
02:07:30,160 --> 02:07:28,139
sort of you while they were here now

2954
02:07:34,490 --> 02:07:30,170
they're gone you know it's sort of

2955
02:07:36,979 --> 02:07:34,500
comforting in a way because it again

2956
02:07:40,490 --> 02:07:36,989
makes some sense out of all of it and I

2957
02:07:44,569 --> 02:07:40,500
do I have to admit that as I consider

2958
02:07:47,479 --> 02:07:44,579
myself a skeptical believer so I tend to

2959
02:07:53,109 --> 02:07:47,489
find that I'm on The Skeptical side of

2960
02:07:57,589 --> 02:07:53,119
many people on the pro UFO community and

2961
02:07:59,720 --> 02:07:57,599
I believe that phenomena is real but I

2962
02:08:02,390 --> 02:07:59,730
also have my own limitations on it or

2963
02:08:04,100 --> 02:08:02,400
whatever and boy I was gonna make a

2964
02:08:06,200 --> 02:08:04,110
really great point here and somehow it's

2965
02:08:08,779 --> 02:08:06,210
it's escaped me what we were just

2966
02:08:10,189 --> 02:08:08,789
talking about I'm sorry about this to

2967
02:08:12,529 --> 02:08:10,199
worry not to worry but we'll have to do

2968
02:08:16,069 --> 02:08:12,539
our station break anyway yeah we have

2969
02:08:18,260 --> 02:08:16,079
Tracy Torme he's a writer producer he

2970
02:08:21,140 --> 02:08:18,270
goes back to the days of Star Trek next

2971
02:08:25,240 --> 02:08:21,150
generation while those responsible for

2972
02:08:30,470 --> 02:08:25,250
the holodeck in fact this is a holodeck

2973
02:08:36,710 --> 02:08:30,480
I'm gene Steinberg here by holography is

2974
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2975
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2992
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3000
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3001
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3003
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3006
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3010
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3011
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3012
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3042
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reduce a number severity and duration of

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3055
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today America's number one source for

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independent talk radio for over a decade

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02:13:04,790 --> 02:13:01,870
[Music]

3076
02:13:07,370 --> 02:13:04,800
that was a holographic representation of

3077
02:13:09,500 --> 02:13:07,380
Chris O'Brien our co-host the real deal

3078
02:13:11,330 --> 02:13:09,510
Tracy Torme is our guest I'm gene

3079
02:13:14,120 --> 02:13:11,340
Steinberg you're in the power cast and

3080
02:13:16,430 --> 02:13:14,130
we were just going into that theory but

3081
02:13:18,830 --> 02:13:16,440
then okay let's bring it to the UFO

3082
02:13:21,620 --> 02:13:18,840
field obviously we depict a holodeck in

3083
02:13:24,439 --> 02:13:21,630
the 23rd or 24th centuries on the Star

3084
02:13:27,140 --> 02:13:24,449
Trek Enterprise but what about in

3085
02:13:29,600 --> 02:13:27,150
reality well if UFOs maybe they're a

3086
02:13:32,029 --> 02:13:29,610
hologram of some sort to divert our

3087
02:13:34,879 --> 02:13:32,039
attention from that which is happening

3088
02:13:38,299 --> 02:13:34,889
elsewhere because some of the UFO events

3089
02:13:40,489 --> 02:13:38,309
seem to be repetitive the creatures come

3090
02:13:42,350 --> 02:13:40,499
out of the craft they pick up the soil

3091
02:13:46,430 --> 02:13:42,360
samples they go back in the craft they

3092
02:13:48,379 --> 02:13:46,440
take off over and over again yes yes

3093
02:13:50,649 --> 02:13:48,389
that's very true that is that is

3094
02:13:53,239 --> 02:13:50,659
puzzling and that is disturbing and

3095
02:13:55,969 --> 02:13:53,249
that's fodder for the skeptics again

3096
02:13:58,040 --> 02:13:55,979
that there's just too much you know I

3097
02:14:00,319 --> 02:13:58,050
can understand that and that's that's

3098
02:14:03,620 --> 02:14:00,329
just to me it's just another sign of how

3099
02:14:07,969 --> 02:14:03,630
this is such a multi-faceted question

3100
02:14:10,160 --> 02:14:07,979
and it's such a possible thing to get a

3101
02:14:12,770 --> 02:14:10,170
real handle on there's just so many

3102
02:14:15,410 --> 02:14:12,780
areas of it if somebody really decides

3103
02:14:18,560 --> 02:14:15,420
to devote their lives to trying to get

3104
02:14:21,290 --> 02:14:18,570
to the bottom of the UFO mystery they

3105
02:14:23,569 --> 02:14:21,300
can start tomorrow and still be working

3106
02:14:25,370 --> 02:14:23,579
on it years from now I mean that's how

3107
02:14:27,649 --> 02:14:25,380
much material there really is in

3108
02:14:30,200 --> 02:14:27,659
Richmond hall for example considered a

3109
02:14:33,319 --> 02:14:30,210
very serious UFO researcher he starts in

3110
02:14:40,399 --> 02:14:33,329
his 20s he dies in his late 70s he's

3111
02:14:42,500 --> 02:14:40,409
still at it but he got nowhere mmm I'm

3112
02:14:45,169 --> 02:14:42,510
back to doing what I did when I was 21

3113
02:14:47,270 --> 02:14:45,179
years of age working on radio speaking

3114
02:14:49,850 --> 02:14:47,280
of Richard Hall though reminds me of

3115
02:14:52,339 --> 02:14:49,860
Hynek and you know I think that I got to

3116
02:14:55,629 --> 02:14:52,349
know hi Nick really well shortly before

3117
02:14:58,600 --> 02:14:55,639
his death I would say I knew him maybe

3118
02:15:01,700 --> 02:14:58,610
three or four years before he died and

3119
02:15:03,950 --> 02:15:01,710
had some great great conversations with

3120
02:15:05,450 --> 02:15:03,960
him and found him to be very engaging

3121
02:15:07,850 --> 02:15:05,460
and very

3122
02:15:09,710 --> 02:15:07,860
we'll die but one of the things I also

3123
02:15:11,750 --> 02:15:09,720
like to tell the skeptics is here's the

3124
02:15:14,840 --> 02:15:11,760
guy who had the access to the most

3125
02:15:17,150 --> 02:15:14,850
information and we started off as an

3126
02:15:18,860 --> 02:15:17,160
arch skeptic and finally reached a point

3127
02:15:21,560 --> 02:15:18,870
where he said I can't do this anymore

3128
02:15:23,990 --> 02:15:21,570
because there's just something to this I

3129
02:15:24,590 --> 02:15:24,000
can't go around saying there isn't any

3130
02:15:26,420 --> 02:15:24,600
longer

3131
02:15:28,910 --> 02:15:26,430
and I do think by the way that there's a

3132
02:15:31,640 --> 02:15:28,920
more a case was what really turned him

3133
02:15:32,720 --> 02:15:31,650
around more than anything else why

3134
02:15:35,810 --> 02:15:32,730
wouldn't the guy with the most

3135
02:15:39,110 --> 02:15:35,820
information say oh this is all a bunch

3136
02:15:41,960 --> 02:15:39,120
of nonsense and it's all fantasy and etc

3137
02:15:43,910 --> 02:15:41,970
etc but if anyone should have said that

3138
02:15:45,800 --> 02:15:43,920
it would be Hynek but he said exactly

3139
02:15:47,840 --> 02:15:45,810
the opposite so to me again that's

3140
02:15:50,540 --> 02:15:47,850
that's some pretty good proof that

3141
02:15:52,760 --> 02:15:50,550
there's something to this now as I

3142
02:15:54,920 --> 02:15:52,770
recall when I talked a few times to dr.

3143
02:15:56,390 --> 02:15:54,930
Hynek I didn't know him that well I got

3144
02:15:59,300 --> 02:15:56,400
the impression towards the end of his

3145
02:16:03,260 --> 02:15:59,310
life his viewpoint had gone beyond the

3146
02:16:07,400 --> 02:16:03,270
basic et and into maybe interdimensional

3147
02:16:10,010 --> 02:16:07,410
whatever what do you think what kind he

3148
02:16:11,690 --> 02:16:10,020
definitely had expanded into believe he

3149
02:16:13,790 --> 02:16:11,700
was actually getting interested in the

3150
02:16:15,710 --> 02:16:13,800
paranormal stuff like that towards the

3151
02:16:18,590 --> 02:16:15,720
end of his life - and what the

3152
02:16:21,080 --> 02:16:18,600
paranormal connection was - UFOs but I

3153
02:16:24,260 --> 02:16:21,090
definitely think he started to move away

3154
02:16:28,070 --> 02:16:24,270
from the nuts and bolts thing and into

3155
02:16:30,200 --> 02:16:28,080
more esoteric type of beliefs so that's

3156
02:16:35,510 --> 02:16:30,210
that's also you know very interesting -

3157
02:16:37,340 --> 02:16:35,520
and I I was really just very impressed

3158
02:16:41,209 --> 02:16:37,350
and actually I know a few guys knew that

3159
02:16:43,720 --> 02:16:41,219
Lorenz ins at all or not in a way that

3160
02:16:48,230 --> 02:16:43,730
I'd like Jim Lorenzen was a great guy

3161
02:16:51,380 --> 02:16:48,240
Karl Lorenzen basically personified

3162
02:16:53,209 --> 02:16:51,390
crusty the crusty old woman that she

3163
02:16:55,459 --> 02:16:53,219
didn't like me I didn't like her where

3164
02:16:56,780 --> 02:16:55,469
do you do I had a great experience with

3165
02:17:00,230 --> 02:16:56,790
her actually where I spent a whole day

3166
02:17:02,300 --> 02:17:00,240
with her and Tucson and we just picked

3167
02:17:03,980 --> 02:17:02,310
her brain for hours and hours and I got

3168
02:17:07,010 --> 02:17:03,990
her on a good day you know and she was

3169
02:17:08,870 --> 02:17:07,020
extremely friendly to me that day and

3170
02:17:11,720 --> 02:17:08,880
very open about everything and just a

3171
02:17:14,360 --> 02:17:11,730
walking encyclopedia you know I mean

3172
02:17:17,090 --> 02:17:14,370
anything brought up in the subject she

3173
02:17:19,110 --> 02:17:17,100
had a tremendous knowledge of but I know

3174
02:17:21,299 --> 02:17:19,120
she rubbed a lot of people the wrong way

3175
02:17:23,669 --> 02:17:21,309
I've heard that many times but I had a

3176
02:17:26,310 --> 02:17:23,679
great experience with her and you know

3177
02:17:29,009 --> 02:17:26,320
people like her and Hynek I definitely

3178
02:17:31,530 --> 02:17:29,019
think they're missed because the really

3179
02:17:33,870 --> 02:17:31,540
great skeptics that I was hoping we're

3180
02:17:37,410 --> 02:17:33,880
gonna come along really haven't

3181
02:17:40,860 --> 02:17:37,420
materialized I mean I'm still amazed at

3182
02:17:43,230 --> 02:17:40,870
how how really lame so many of these

3183
02:17:45,839 --> 02:17:43,240
skeptics are they're just they don't do

3184
02:17:48,270 --> 02:17:45,849
good tangible arguments which UFOs in

3185
02:17:50,490 --> 02:17:48,280
need and UFL they need good skeptics the

3186
02:17:53,490 --> 02:17:50,500
whole field desperately needs good

3187
02:17:58,230 --> 02:17:53,500
skeptics and I keep hoping that we'll

3188
02:18:00,389 --> 02:17:58,240
find them but just that I think part of

3189
02:18:02,250 --> 02:18:00,399
the problem with the UFO field is people

3190
02:18:04,950 --> 02:18:02,260
are so busy fighting each other over

3191
02:18:06,810 --> 02:18:04,960
much more trivial issues they don't

3192
02:18:08,820 --> 02:18:06,820
consider the larger stuff they don't

3193
02:18:11,070 --> 02:18:08,830
consider you know let's figure out

3194
02:18:13,230 --> 02:18:11,080
what's going on let's get to the bottom

3195
02:18:14,520 --> 02:18:13,240
of it can't we get along no because

3196
02:18:16,770 --> 02:18:14,530
they're selling their books there's

3197
02:18:18,599 --> 02:18:16,780
looking for glory and they're not

3198
02:18:20,339 --> 02:18:18,609
looking for answers there's another

3199
02:18:22,620 --> 02:18:20,349
factor here too there were a lot of

3200
02:18:26,190 --> 02:18:22,630
people when they get too close to the

3201
02:18:27,810 --> 02:18:26,200
UFO mystery it screws them up I mean

3202
02:18:30,150 --> 02:18:27,820
they pretty much think now that they're

3203
02:18:32,879 --> 02:18:30,160
part of a small group that knows the

3204
02:18:34,410 --> 02:18:32,889
truth with capital T and therefore

3205
02:18:36,480 --> 02:18:34,420
they've got to kind of look over their

3206
02:18:38,849 --> 02:18:36,490
shoulders and check their mail and check

3207
02:18:41,700 --> 02:18:38,859
their phone lines and somebody's out

3208
02:18:43,500 --> 02:18:41,710
there monitoring them if I could count

3209
02:18:46,129 --> 02:18:43,510
the number of people that I've literally

3210
02:18:50,339 --> 02:18:46,139
seen go off the deep end who seemed

3211
02:18:51,990 --> 02:18:50,349
reasonably together previously I mean I

3212
02:18:55,049 --> 02:18:52,000
have to count for a long time so that

3213
02:18:57,120 --> 02:18:55,059
that's one of the weird offshoots of the

3214
02:18:59,580 --> 02:18:57,130
phenomena really you know yeah I've

3215
02:19:01,259 --> 02:18:59,590
known one or two myself yeah literally

3216
02:19:03,540 --> 02:19:01,269
just falling off the deep end with it

3217
02:19:04,980 --> 02:19:03,550
yeah one thing I always wondered about

3218
02:19:06,839 --> 02:19:04,990
kora Lorenz and I've heard so many

3219
02:19:08,219 --> 02:19:06,849
stories about how she was fairly

3220
02:19:09,839 --> 02:19:08,229
difficult to get along with I always

3221
02:19:14,509 --> 02:19:09,849
wondered if maybe Linda Howe took a

3222
02:19:18,990 --> 02:19:16,349
probably shouldn't have said that I'm

3223
02:19:20,969 --> 02:19:19,000
sorry no we love you we love you girl we

3224
02:19:23,280 --> 02:19:20,979
love you even if you are the dragon

3225
02:19:25,530 --> 02:19:23,290
queen of ufology now you've taken taken

3226
02:19:27,900 --> 02:19:25,540
the mantle on but one thing that I think

3227
02:19:30,780 --> 02:19:27,910
people lose sight of is the possibility

3228
02:19:32,060 --> 02:19:30,790
that we are dealing with such a multi

3229
02:19:34,220 --> 02:19:32,070
farias

3230
02:19:36,170 --> 02:19:34,230
Aereo that it's infinitely more complex

3231
02:19:38,800 --> 02:19:36,180
than we could possibly imagine that it's

3232
02:19:40,850 --> 02:19:38,810
old to terrestrials mehta terrestrials

3233
02:19:43,041 --> 02:19:40,860
extraterrestrials us coming back from

3234
02:19:45,680 --> 02:19:43,051
the future

3235
02:19:48,170 --> 02:19:45,690
subterranean crypto terrestrials who

3236
02:19:51,430 --> 02:19:48,180
knows maybe it's it's a combination of

3237
02:19:54,350 --> 02:19:51,440
all the above and there is no even one

3238
02:19:56,751 --> 02:19:54,360
even a chance of a one-size-fits-all

3239
02:19:58,461 --> 02:19:56,761
answer that as soon as you it's like

3240
02:20:00,080 --> 02:19:58,471
going to the carnival and hitting those

3241
02:20:02,001 --> 02:20:00,090
little woodchucks on the head as soon as

3242
02:20:04,160 --> 02:20:02,011
you hear one another one pops up in the

3243
02:20:05,780 --> 02:20:04,170
other spots so yeah you know that's

3244
02:20:08,060 --> 02:20:05,790
that's a theory I don't hear very many

3245
02:20:09,740 --> 02:20:08,070
people come up with it's like what do

3246
02:20:11,421 --> 02:20:09,750
you mean none of it's true it's all true

3247
02:20:14,570 --> 02:20:11,431
you know that's sort of thinking and

3248
02:20:15,740 --> 02:20:14,580
that's that's an avenue of discussion I

3249
02:20:18,291 --> 02:20:15,750
think that you don't really hear that

3250
02:20:21,620 --> 02:20:18,301
much anymore that everybody wants it to

3251
02:20:23,631 --> 02:20:21,630
be so easy and so you know one size fits

3252
02:20:24,830 --> 02:20:23,641
all that maybe it's just infinitely more

3253
02:20:27,890 --> 02:20:24,840
complex than we could ever possibly

3254
02:20:31,310 --> 02:20:27,900
imagine I know that you guys interviewed

3255
02:20:39,560 --> 02:20:31,320
Rock recently were you able to get to

3256
02:20:41,211 --> 02:20:39,570
the bottom of his theory he's so very

3257
02:20:44,990 --> 02:20:41,221
good at what he does he represents

3258
02:20:47,541 --> 02:20:45,000
himself very elegantly and his is very

3259
02:20:50,091 --> 02:20:47,551
good at talking about these things

3260
02:20:52,671 --> 02:20:50,101
without really divulging too terribly

3261
02:20:54,801 --> 02:20:52,681
much but one thing that he did say was

3262
02:20:56,690 --> 02:20:54,811
he didn't really feel that there was

3263
02:20:59,720 --> 02:20:56,700
really much hope for any sort of

3264
02:21:03,051 --> 02:20:59,730
disclosure process and that he did sort

3265
02:21:04,610 --> 02:21:03,061
of lament and echoed in many ways what

3266
02:21:08,030 --> 02:21:04,620
you've been saying about science and the

3267
02:21:10,220 --> 02:21:08,040
skeptics and how scientists just aren't

3268
02:21:13,671 --> 02:21:10,230
they're dropping the ball and that we

3269
02:21:15,860 --> 02:21:13,681
need we need to to get everybody

3270
02:21:18,410 --> 02:21:15,870
involved from both sides of the aisle so

3271
02:21:21,470 --> 02:21:18,420
to speak and you know and also to be

3272
02:21:24,110 --> 02:21:21,480
fair to these skeptics and to be fair to

3273
02:21:25,910 --> 02:21:24,120
the debate about whether this stuff is

3274
02:21:28,280 --> 02:21:25,920
real or not which of course is at the

3275
02:21:31,131 --> 02:21:28,290
crux of the whole thing you know I'm

3276
02:21:35,301 --> 02:21:31,141
disappointed that there aren't more

3277
02:21:37,131 --> 02:21:35,311
videos and I know people will say well

3278
02:21:39,591 --> 02:21:37,141
there's been a lot of videos and you

3279
02:21:41,810 --> 02:21:39,601
know whatever and you can you can make

3280
02:21:45,020 --> 02:21:41,820
that case I guess but with the

3281
02:21:45,800 --> 02:21:45,030
proliferation of video cameras and the

3282
02:21:47,630 --> 02:21:45,810
amount of

3283
02:21:50,840 --> 02:21:47,640
things that were flying around here at

3284
02:21:53,240 --> 02:21:50,850
least at one time in our past you would

3285
02:21:55,399 --> 02:21:53,250
just expect that there would be some

3286
02:21:58,069 --> 02:21:55,409
video that would just be captured

3287
02:22:01,760 --> 02:21:58,079
that would be definitive you just see

3288
02:22:05,510 --> 02:22:01,770
something and you know for sure that's a

3289
02:22:07,580 --> 02:22:05,520
real phenomena that's a real UFO and I

3290
02:22:10,250 --> 02:22:07,590
think that that again it might have

3291
02:22:13,099 --> 02:22:10,260
something to do with the self concealing

3292
02:22:16,760 --> 02:22:13,109
nature of the phenomena the phenomena

3293
02:22:18,950 --> 02:22:16,770
has as a way of cloaking what it's what

3294
02:22:21,859 --> 02:22:18,960
it does it's meant to be it's meant to

3295
02:22:23,870 --> 02:22:21,869
be cloaked it's why the plan maybe we'll

3296
02:22:26,179 --> 02:22:23,880
get into this in a moment Tracy Torme is

3297
02:22:28,490 --> 02:22:26,189
the guest Chris O'Brien's the co-host

3298
02:22:30,560 --> 02:22:28,500
I'm gene Steinberg you're in the Burrow

3299
02:22:39,410 --> 02:22:30,570
cursed

3300
02:22:42,479 --> 02:22:39,420
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3301
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3306
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3307
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3321
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3324
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3325
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acidic water which burns holes in your

3326
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body and causes loss of bone mass or

3327
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alkaline water which promotes high

3328
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3329
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3330
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3331
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3332
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3333
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3334
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3335
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3336
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3338
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3339
02:24:15,660 --> 02:24:13,600
alkaline level most experts agree that

3340
02:24:18,150 --> 02:24:15,670
the water you drink should be at a pH

3341
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level of 8 or higher disease organisms

3342
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like bacteria viruses or cancer cannot

3343
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3350
02:24:50,301 --> 02:24:47,940
not be thinking about ammo when we say

3351
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battery station but you should because

3352
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battery station has a large inventory of

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3355
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ammunition there you'll see where Second

3356
02:25:04,100 --> 02:25:00,391
Amendment Patriots invest in precious

3357
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metals for 380 nine millimeter 40 Cal 45

3358
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3359
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thirty out six 308 and more be sure to

3360
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look for the October GCM specials in

3361
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3364
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3368
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3372
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3373
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3381
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3384
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3385
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3386
02:26:14,720 --> 02:26:13,081
wondered why banks stockbrokers

3387
02:26:16,551 --> 02:26:14,730
investment advisors won't talk about

3388
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gold IRAs they've been available since

3389
02:26:20,900 --> 02:26:19,141
1986 yet the financial industry won't

3390
02:26:22,821 --> 02:26:20,910
recognize the value of gold for your

3391
02:26:25,190 --> 02:26:22,831
retirement goal has outperformed paper

3392
02:26:26,751 --> 02:26:25,200
investments yet no word about IRAs if

3393
02:26:45,360 --> 02:26:26,761
you would like to have gold for your

3394
02:26:45,370 --> 02:26:54,550
Chernobyl we are the GCM radio network

3395
02:27:05,540 --> 02:27:01,000
[Music]

3396
02:27:09,080 --> 02:27:05,550
he almost did it ladies and gentlemen

3397
02:27:11,960 --> 02:27:09,090
Chris O'Brien almost got to the bass

3398
02:27:14,719 --> 02:27:11,970
portion of the spectrum he's trying his

3399
02:27:17,440 --> 02:27:14,729
best I give him another 25 years and I

3400
02:27:22,880 --> 02:27:17,450
think he'll get there Tracy Torme is

3401
02:27:25,160 --> 02:27:22,890
into me reptilian yeah I'm inherit cast

3402
02:27:26,929 --> 02:27:25,170
Chris you were about to say I haven't

3403
02:27:28,639 --> 02:27:26,939
done that one yet I'll save that one for

3404
02:27:31,700 --> 02:27:28,649
last repetition when you do the

3405
02:27:34,760 --> 02:27:31,710
trickster but that's not reptilian is it

3406
02:27:36,139 --> 02:27:34,770
no the trickster is different I kind of

3407
02:27:40,849 --> 02:27:36,149
model the trickster after one of our

3408
02:27:45,200 --> 02:27:40,859
original co-hosts but who shall remain

3409
02:27:46,490 --> 02:27:45,210
nameless who shan't be named yeah

3410
02:27:48,800 --> 02:27:46,500
or you don't want to go into all that

3411
02:27:50,479 --> 02:27:48,810
but I do want to go into this if you

3412
02:27:53,570 --> 02:27:50,489
want to express your views about this

3413
02:27:56,840 --> 02:27:53,580
show or any show send it to news at the

3414
02:27:59,360 --> 02:27:56,850
Peres cast com once again that's news at

3415
02:28:02,090 --> 02:27:59,370
the power cast calm okay in the last

3416
02:28:05,840 --> 02:28:02,100
portion of this episode Tracy Torme

3417
02:28:07,219 --> 02:28:05,850
obviously UFO investigators are really

3418
02:28:08,870 --> 02:28:07,229
not getting anywhere maybe the

3419
02:28:10,370 --> 02:28:08,880
phenomenon doesn't want us to get

3420
02:28:12,559 --> 02:28:10,380
anywhere they just want to take us to

3421
02:28:14,570 --> 02:28:12,569
the next level whatever that might be

3422
02:28:16,490 --> 02:28:14,580
and we kind of think here that so many

3423
02:28:19,219 --> 02:28:16,500
UFO researchers have come and gone

3424
02:28:21,170 --> 02:28:19,229
they've tried they've really given it

3425
02:28:22,849 --> 02:28:21,180
all their all and sometimes screwed up

3426
02:28:26,300 --> 02:28:22,859
their professional wives as a result

3427
02:28:28,250 --> 02:28:26,310
so Tracy Torme what do you think how do

3428
02:28:30,889 --> 02:28:28,260
we get to the bottom of this can we is

3429
02:28:33,710 --> 02:28:30,899
this just an endless quest without any

3430
02:28:36,110 --> 02:28:33,720
reward well because I believe there is a

3431
02:28:40,490 --> 02:28:36,120
real phenomena because I believe that at

3432
02:28:42,860 --> 02:28:40,500
the core it does exist and I always have

3433
02:28:46,370 --> 02:28:42,870
some hope in the back of my mind that

3434
02:28:50,420 --> 02:28:46,380
someday that wonderful smoking gun will

3435
02:28:52,519 --> 02:28:50,430
come forward whether it's a video or an

3436
02:28:55,429 --> 02:28:52,529
event or something witnessed by a number

3437
02:28:57,349 --> 02:28:55,439
of people or whatever and there's always

3438
02:29:00,349 --> 02:28:57,359
the chance that that's going to happen

3439
02:29:02,150 --> 02:29:00,359
because if the phenomena is real then

3440
02:29:05,870 --> 02:29:02,160
there's always a chance that it will be

3441
02:29:08,690 --> 02:29:05,880
uncovered unfortunately that momentum

3442
02:29:10,969 --> 02:29:08,700
that it seemed that the field had going

3443
02:29:12,860 --> 02:29:10,979
for it going back to the Close

3444
02:29:15,890 --> 02:29:12,870
Encounters days and whatever

3445
02:29:18,320 --> 02:29:15,900
just anticipating this great disclosure

3446
02:29:19,880 --> 02:29:18,330
that was going to happen that seems to

3447
02:29:22,100 --> 02:29:19,890
have come and gone I mean I don't you

3448
02:29:24,560 --> 02:29:22,110
just don't you just don't feel the

3449
02:29:26,210 --> 02:29:24,570
momentum of that anymore

3450
02:29:28,370 --> 02:29:26,220
at least I don't I don't know about you

3451
02:29:30,830 --> 02:29:28,380
guys but that's stuff that's my take on

3452
02:29:33,170 --> 02:29:30,840
it so it's a mixture of being

3453
02:29:36,020 --> 02:29:33,180
discouraged and encouraged you know

3454
02:29:39,080 --> 02:29:36,030
you're encouraged because it's real and

3455
02:29:41,180 --> 02:29:39,090
the truth shall hopefully come out at

3456
02:29:42,801 --> 02:29:41,190
some point and then you're discouraged

3457
02:29:44,870 --> 02:29:42,811
because it seems like every time you

3458
02:29:47,270 --> 02:29:44,880
take a step forward you take two or

3459
02:29:48,830 --> 02:29:47,280
three steps backwards and you're farther

3460
02:29:51,230 --> 02:29:48,840
away from knowing what it's all about

3461
02:29:53,390 --> 02:29:51,240
than you were when you started and so

3462
02:29:55,670 --> 02:29:53,400
anybody that really wants to get to the

3463
02:29:59,360 --> 02:29:55,680
bottom of this had better have a lot of

3464
02:30:02,420 --> 02:29:59,370
patience and some pretty strong mental

3465
02:30:06,410 --> 02:30:02,430
abilities so that they don't succumb to

3466
02:30:09,860 --> 02:30:06,420
the craziness and I think if you don't

3467
02:30:11,980 --> 02:30:09,870
have patience in this field you've got

3468
02:30:20,720 --> 02:30:11,990
to go get some you know you just happily

3469
02:30:22,761 --> 02:30:20,730
you know yeah or they come one the

3470
02:30:26,810 --> 02:30:22,771
highways and byways of Hollywood

3471
02:30:30,950 --> 02:30:26,820
deal-making and you know can we get you

3472
02:30:33,801 --> 02:30:30,960
maybe allocated or Commission to fix up

3473
02:30:35,420 --> 02:30:33,811
the UFO field and if you had that job

3474
02:30:37,490 --> 02:30:35,430
and you probably won't take it

3475
02:30:39,650 --> 02:30:37,500
that's one assignment you won't accept

3476
02:30:42,950 --> 02:30:39,660
even if the message self-destructs in

3477
02:30:45,080 --> 02:30:42,960
ten seconds what would you do to fix it

3478
02:30:48,040 --> 02:30:45,090
all up well first thing I would do is I

3479
02:30:51,591 --> 02:30:48,050
would change my ways as far as how you

3480
02:30:54,801 --> 02:30:51,601
tell the world about the UFO phenomena

3481
02:30:56,900 --> 02:30:54,811
you have to you have to be careful to

3482
02:30:59,330 --> 02:30:56,910
rein in people that are just going off

3483
02:31:02,930 --> 02:30:59,340
the deep end the Steven Greer's of the

3484
02:31:05,360 --> 02:31:02,940
world who will make every possible claim

3485
02:31:07,551 --> 02:31:05,370
under the Sun because the art bells of

3486
02:31:10,070 --> 02:31:07,561
the world you know art bill used to

3487
02:31:11,450 --> 02:31:10,080
drive me absolutely crazy because he

3488
02:31:14,091 --> 02:31:11,460
would just never ask a tough question

3489
02:31:16,370 --> 02:31:14,101
it's like you could say lizard men are

3490
02:31:18,051 --> 02:31:16,380
landing in flying saucers outside my

3491
02:31:20,301 --> 02:31:18,061
door every night and taking my bottle of

3492
02:31:22,220 --> 02:31:20,311
water and he would be like fascinating

3493
02:31:23,210 --> 02:31:22,230
that's wonderful or he'd say do you have

3494
02:31:25,780 --> 02:31:23,220
any hobbies

3495
02:31:30,921 --> 02:31:25,790
[Laughter]

3496
02:31:34,970 --> 02:31:30,931
so it needs it needs sharp minds it

3497
02:31:37,720 --> 02:31:34,980
needs a definite pinch of skepticism it

3498
02:31:40,430 --> 02:31:37,730
needs people to realize that the

3499
02:31:42,400 --> 02:31:40,440
incredible claims need incredible proof

3500
02:31:46,360 --> 02:31:42,410
I agree with that I think that's true

3501
02:31:49,671 --> 02:31:46,370
it's just the PR battle is being lost

3502
02:31:52,100 --> 02:31:49,681
steadily over the years and you know

3503
02:31:54,291 --> 02:31:52,110
when you look for a UFO book in a

3504
02:31:56,690 --> 02:31:54,301
bookstore a lot of times you have to go

3505
02:31:59,301 --> 02:31:56,700
to the occult section and that's wrong

3506
02:32:02,570 --> 02:31:59,311
right there you know that shows you what

3507
02:32:04,341 --> 02:32:02,580
a pseudoscience is it's not considered

3508
02:32:05,810 --> 02:32:04,351
to be a real science so that's one thing

3509
02:32:08,541 --> 02:32:05,820
another thing I would try to do is I

3510
02:32:11,990 --> 02:32:08,551
would try to enlist some really really

3511
02:32:14,541 --> 02:32:12,000
good scientific minds and try to get

3512
02:32:17,810 --> 02:32:14,551
them to get beyond their fear of

3513
02:32:20,390 --> 02:32:17,820
ridicule and to take a real look at some

3514
02:32:23,060 --> 02:32:20,400
of this stuff I loved is amaura case

3515
02:32:25,400 --> 02:32:23,070
because there's multiple witnesses

3516
02:32:28,400 --> 02:32:25,410
there's burn marks on the ground there's

3517
02:32:31,461 --> 02:32:28,410
a great witness there's a police officer

3518
02:32:34,461 --> 02:32:31,471
with no imagination there's all kinds of

3519
02:32:37,131 --> 02:32:34,471
reasons to like that case and I love to

3520
02:32:40,041 --> 02:32:37,141
challenge skeptics and say tell me what

3521
02:32:42,640 --> 02:32:40,051
this was and I've yet to hear anything

3522
02:32:46,041 --> 02:32:42,650
that makes any kind of sense whatsoever

3523
02:32:48,140 --> 02:32:46,051
so getting people to face the really

3524
02:32:51,291 --> 02:32:48,150
great cases and the really great

3525
02:32:56,450 --> 02:32:51,301
evidence and to approach it level-headed

3526
02:32:58,220 --> 02:32:56,460
Lee and with a sense of balance I mean

3527
02:32:59,150 --> 02:32:58,230
these are all things I'm saying that are

3528
02:33:01,850 --> 02:32:59,160
easier said than done

3529
02:33:03,350 --> 02:33:01,860
yes you know I'm not saying I have like

3530
02:33:06,140 --> 02:33:03,360
the magic formula to make this all

3531
02:33:08,780 --> 02:33:06,150
happen but the subject in general needs

3532
02:33:11,390 --> 02:33:08,790
to be elevated needs to be treated with

3533
02:33:13,761 --> 02:33:11,400
respect and it needs to be seen as the

3534
02:33:16,190 --> 02:33:13,771
greatest mystery of its time and it's an

3535
02:33:19,610 --> 02:33:16,200
unsolved mystery and we should encourage

3536
02:33:23,291 --> 02:33:19,620
people to get involved who have good

3537
02:33:25,791 --> 02:33:23,301
minds who can make some sense out of it

3538
02:33:29,060 --> 02:33:25,801
unfortunately there's far too few yeah

3539
02:33:31,940 --> 02:33:29,070
and also we need to find a way to dampen

3540
02:33:35,091 --> 02:33:31,950
down and some somehow negate the

3541
02:33:36,831 --> 02:33:35,101
pop-culture programming the people the

3542
02:33:37,590 --> 02:33:36,841
up-and-coming generation is getting

3543
02:33:41,179 --> 02:33:37,600
front-load

3544
02:33:44,219 --> 02:33:41,189
with there's so many just watered-down

3545
02:33:47,280 --> 02:33:44,229
generalizations that are being force-fed

3546
02:33:50,250 --> 02:33:47,290
I think younger people and I think it's

3547
02:33:53,160 --> 02:33:50,260
it's not being taken seriously by the by

3548
02:33:55,620 --> 02:33:53,170
younger folks and that's gonna be a real

3549
02:33:58,710 --> 02:33:55,630
problem as we go down the road in this

3550
02:34:00,950 --> 02:33:58,720
in this quest and in this process it's

3551
02:34:02,820 --> 02:34:00,960
it's gonna just wither on the vine until

3552
02:34:05,460 --> 02:34:02,830
something lands on the White House lawn

3553
02:34:06,750 --> 02:34:05,470
or you know in Red Square or something

3554
02:34:10,200 --> 02:34:06,760
or in Tiananmen Square

3555
02:34:11,910 --> 02:34:10,210
I mean I'm short of that I mean it's I

3556
02:34:13,500 --> 02:34:11,920
think you're right Tracy it's looking

3557
02:34:15,450 --> 02:34:13,510
bleaker and bleaker because we're

3558
02:34:17,820 --> 02:34:15,460
everything's getting watered down it's

3559
02:34:19,979 --> 02:34:17,830
not being taken seriously but you gotta

3560
02:34:22,620 --> 02:34:19,989
you got to keep the faith you got you

3561
02:34:24,269 --> 02:34:22,630
gotta keep you know positive attitude

3562
02:34:27,149 --> 02:34:24,279
about the whole thing if you don't then

3563
02:34:29,070 --> 02:34:27,159
you know you're part of the problem well

3564
02:34:31,290 --> 02:34:29,080
don't you agree that actually while ago

3565
02:34:34,109 --> 02:34:31,300
there was a sense of momentum in the air

3566
02:34:35,790 --> 02:34:34,119
that we were heading towards an answer

3567
02:34:38,219 --> 02:34:35,800
we were heading towards the disclosure

3568
02:34:41,250 --> 02:34:38,229
the truth was coming out they were

3569
02:34:42,599 --> 02:34:41,260
preparing everybody for I mean I can't

3570
02:34:45,179 --> 02:34:42,609
tell you how many times I've heard that

3571
02:34:48,269 --> 02:34:45,189
and after a while I just start to roll

3572
02:34:51,389 --> 02:34:48,279
my eyes because I heard it way too many

3573
02:34:53,399 --> 02:34:51,399
times before you know and you know it

3574
02:34:55,260 --> 02:34:53,409
seems to go about every 10 years about

3575
02:34:59,700 --> 02:34:55,270
every 10 years there's an ebb and flow

3576
02:35:03,479 --> 02:34:59,710
and with all due respect to Linda how I

3577
02:35:05,130 --> 02:35:03,489
was friends with her when you know some

3578
02:35:07,500 --> 02:35:05,140
of these and s time people were

3579
02:35:09,630 --> 02:35:07,510
contacting her and making her believe

3580
02:35:12,090 --> 02:35:09,640
that she had been you know specifically

3581
02:35:14,399 --> 02:35:12,100
chosen to tell the truth to the world

3582
02:35:15,929 --> 02:35:14,409
and all of that and I remember at the

3583
02:35:20,040 --> 02:35:15,939
time thinking I'm it's never gonna

3584
02:35:22,830 --> 02:35:20,050
happen and unfortunately you know I'm

3585
02:35:24,899 --> 02:35:22,840
sorry to have been right it's just a lot

3586
02:35:29,250 --> 02:35:24,909
of manipulation of people go on in those

3587
02:35:31,559 --> 02:35:29,260
areas and egos get involved and it's

3588
02:35:33,120 --> 02:35:31,569
unfortunate you know it is it's a

3589
02:35:35,790 --> 02:35:33,130
constant uphill battle like you said

3590
02:35:37,679 --> 02:35:35,800
it's two steps forward three or four

3591
02:35:39,330 --> 02:35:37,689
steps back it seems but it's worth it

3592
02:35:42,389 --> 02:35:39,340
you know I think it's all worth it when

3593
02:35:45,179 --> 02:35:42,399
a really great case comes along what in

3594
02:35:47,519 --> 02:35:45,189
the world is more interesting I mean it

3595
02:35:49,139 --> 02:35:47,529
no it's just it's interesting from so

3596
02:35:51,540 --> 02:35:49,149
many Letten so many

3597
02:35:54,149 --> 02:35:51,550
levels when you get a really good case

3598
02:35:56,309 --> 02:35:54,159
to just try to get to the bottom of it

3599
02:35:58,290 --> 02:35:56,319
and figure out what's the thought

3600
02:35:59,849 --> 02:35:58,300
process behind it and what do they want

3601
02:36:02,670 --> 02:35:59,859
and what are they doing and why are they

3602
02:36:06,540 --> 02:36:02,680
doing it you know it's a great great

3603
02:36:07,920 --> 02:36:06,550
mystery you know so that that should

3604
02:36:09,929 --> 02:36:07,930
keep people coming back for more

3605
02:36:11,939 --> 02:36:09,939
hopefully that keeps you coming back for

3606
02:36:13,859 --> 02:36:11,949
more okay let me ask you are you were

3607
02:36:16,380 --> 02:36:13,869
going to set up a website maybe someday

3608
02:36:17,849 --> 02:36:16,390
that will allow you to post your

3609
02:36:20,340 --> 02:36:17,859
thoughts about this because you don't

3610
02:36:22,710 --> 02:36:20,350
really have a site now do you something

3611
02:36:24,840 --> 02:36:22,720
I actually toured with I probably should

3612
02:36:28,170 --> 02:36:24,850
do that one day it's some something on

3613
02:36:29,519 --> 02:36:28,180
my list to do things yeah yeah we'll

3614
02:36:31,620 --> 02:36:29,529
help you Chris and I will help you set

3615
02:36:33,179 --> 02:36:31,630
up that site if you need to Chris

3616
02:36:35,729 --> 02:36:33,189
O'Brien where do we find more of the

3617
02:36:37,710 --> 02:36:35,739
stuff you do well we live on a strange

3618
02:36:40,290 --> 02:36:37,720
planet and I have a website called our

3619
02:36:43,080 --> 02:36:40,300
strange planet calm it is a strange

3620
02:36:46,710 --> 02:36:43,090
planet it's your strange planet and it's

3621
02:36:49,439 --> 02:36:46,720
our strange planet okay a special thank

3622
02:36:52,080 --> 02:36:49,449
you from my co-host O'Brien and myself

3623
02:36:55,260 --> 02:36:52,090
to Tracey Torme thanks for joining us

3624
02:36:57,449 --> 02:36:55,270
for a special enjoyable episode of the

3625
02:37:02,430 --> 02:36:57,459
power cast well thank you guys thanks JC

3626
02:37:06,449 --> 02:37:04,469
[Music]

3627
02:37:08,849 --> 02:37:06,459
and this is confident presentation of

3628
02:37:11,179 --> 02:37:08,859
making the impossible incorporated tune